EP #16 | {Special Feature} Guest Experts Highlights from Inside the Membership
Welcome to the Designers Oasis podcast. I'm your host, Kate Bendewald, interior designer, mama and CEO of a thriving interior design business, built on authentic word of mouth referrals. It wasn't that long ago that I stepped away from my corporate architecture job to build my own dream, one that would allow me more time with the people that I love, the ability to serve my clients at the highest level, and to make a great living. It wasn't always easy, and I've made my share of mistakes along the way. Fast forward to today, and I've learned a thing or two. This podcast is for you - the inspired, creative, ambitious, and let's admit it, occasionally overwhelmed interior designer who shares this dream of transforming lives by transforming homes. Join me and my guests each week as we walk through practical ways to build an interior design business you love, and helps you transform your clients' lives. You can do this.
Well, hello, my friend and welcome. I am so excited for today's episode, which is a little bit different from how we've done podcast recording in the past. So each month inside the designers Oasis membership, we invite guest experts to come and share more about their area of expertise. These curated individuals come and provide actionable insight into their areas of knowledge. Now, some months we have design experts such as porcelain nosa, who came and taught us about using their x tone, large format porcelain slabs, which make beautiful and durable countertops, flooring and wall finishes, or surfacing Solutions who came and talked about their timber wood, a flexible wood paneling product that is so hot right now and design. We learned how to specify different applications for it and more. But then we also have experts in business who have come to discuss everything from money and finance to wellness, mental health to art curation.
Today, I'm taking just a few of these experts in sharing with you a few of my favorite moments and key insights from over the years. Consider this montage, a little sneak peek. But my hope for you today is that you find these experts to be powerful little nuggets of actionable knowledge you can take with you. And of course, if you like what you hear and you want to get to the full episodes, you can always join the designers Oasis membership. And when you do, you'll not only get access to all the archives, but you can access future live guests where you can submit your questions to the experts in real time. Now, just a quick note, before we get into these sessions, these were not recorded with podcasting in mind. So you'll have to forgive the audio on some of them, I hope you can still take away some great insights from today's episode.
All right, first up, we have Molly Casey, the chief curator and co-founder of nine dot arts, a full service art curation, and installation firm in Denver and Seattle. But with projects all over North America, their work has been featured in Architectural Digest Forbes LA Times, and nominated this year for Colorado top companies in architecture and design. We brought Molly in to talk about how to curate art for your clients. And unfortunately, art can sometimes be an afterthought in interior design. So I wanted to learn more about how to bring the art conversation earlier into the design process. Molly believes art should be thought provoking. Art should create moments of discovery. And most of all, art should help turn your space into a one of a kind experience. So I asked Molly to elaborate on this and to share her thoughts about the role of art in interiors. Here's what she had to say about that.
Molly Casey
I liken it to icing on the cake right when you've got all of your ingredients you're throwing in, you're making this wonderful, delicious thing that's all of like, the design elements, all of the work that you do and that all of you great designers do to make this space. just exciting to be in to start and then what is that? What are those last things that you put on the cake to give it that wow moment right? What are the things that make it extra wonderful? And so the artwork I think brings in that last added layer of bringing the space together by complementing the great work that designers do and also like evoking emotion and bringing the human spirit into a space. Because a space that doesn't have artwork or that has really poor or badly done artwork, you feel it, like you feel it in your in your being whether it's subconscious, or you know, as us as visual people, you actually are like, Oh my God, that just makes me feel terrible. And so we know that art, because it has the human element to it in the soul that gets injected into it with every piece that's created. It truly does humanize spaces, and it also creates that experience, it creates memories. I mean, you remember great pieces of artwork for a reason. I don't know, if you always remember, you know, like the H vac system, probably not the faucets like those things, all the things that are functional, sometimes can be memorable. But the artwork is really what helps to create experiences for people because it has that, that human touch.
Kate Bendewald
What Molly said really resonated with me. So I wanted to dig in a bit deeper on how we can take this idea of using art to evoke emotion, and use that as one of our tools in our kit as interior designers. So I went on to share two very different experiences I had with art in public spaces. And this leads Molly to helping us develop a process for incorporating conversations about art with our clients. Much earlier in the process of working with interior design clients. Let's take a listen. In the home because, you know, I mentioned to you like you work a lot with public spaces and commercial spaces, some residents, most we have some commercial designers in the membership and most of our members I would say are residential designers. So I think it's important when thinking about curating art for a home, that we still think about it as what kind of an experience do you like, want to have? What do you want your guests to feel? You know, when they come in? Would you agree?
Molly Casey
100%? I mean, the residential projects that we've worked on, have definitely that's been that's been a huge drivers like well, what do you what not just what are your what do you want to say to your guests when they come in and when people are at your house because the artwork does make a statement like if you have certain artwork on the wall, people are going to have a reaction just like you would in a public space. But also, what do you want to feel in your house? Do you want to feel warm? And cozy? Do you want to feel like this room has a lot of energy and excitement? Like what are the emotions that you want to evoke in people and in yourselves as well in these different spaces, because the artwork can bring that to the space? And obviously design, you know, you guys know the next year the experts there but bringing in that same like how you match design with those emotions as well, the artwork can just be an added layer there and truly speak to who you are as a person. So it is critical, I think, to make sure that it's done correctly. And that it's not that long horn from Ikea, the black and white longboard from my pre-staged home I've ever seen. You know, like, express yourself through the artwork, it's there as a moment to show more about who you are and to start conversations. And to either, you know, put you at ease in a space or remind you of something or, you know, what are these different things that you could bring into the home using artwork, I think it's a huge tool to create those experiences.
Kate Bendewald
Would you say that, to me, it sounds like that would be a great starting conversation with your clients, if you are setting out to focus on creating art for your clients. And maybe you do hire a consultant and you work with them as a partner. But if you were tasked with doing this, and it's something that you felt you wanted to do sounds like those would be some really great starting questions to ask your clients.
Molly Casey
That's exactly right. And that's part of our process. Because with every client, we have a completely new story to tell. So we think of artwork as a way to tell a narrative, right?
Kate Bendewald
We storytelling in homes all the time..
Molly Casey
Okay, this is already in line with what you do and a lot of interior designers that I work with on the commercial side as well have we have such similar process that a lot of times we like to get involved really early in the game when they are doing that visioning because we have our own visioning session that's just specific for artwork, but it can totally be congruent. So yeah, digging that deep dive. I mean, when you get to know your client, you're already digging into their aesthetics and trying to talk about what they want to accomplish and achieve with the design. And artwork can just be another piece of that conversation. So finding out what do you want to feel when you're in here? What do you want to say to people when they come in here? Who's going to be using the space? Do you have any specific, you know, stories that you want to bring out and tell to the people because the artwork can do all of that.
Kate Bendewald
I hope this helps you to start thinking about ways you can incorporate art curation early in the design process. And friends, there's so much more to this conversation. We also talked about the value of negative reactions toward art, the presence of racism and art, and she explained to me what the hell NF tees are and so much more.
Next up, we have Tracy Harwood, the founder of rock solid VA is a virtual assistant matchmaking service that helps pair busy professionals with a virtual assistant who can help them manage the seemingly endless daily to do's. In my interview, I asked Tracy, what does she encounter over and over again, from interior designers and small business owners who are struggling to take that first step to hiring,
Tracy Harwood
I just have to give the biggest shout out to the fact that hiring is hard. And nobody knows where to start. And nobody even knows where to look, you can go to LinkedIn and you can type in a virtual assistant, every single kind of person imaginable with every skill set and level of experience is going to pop up. So you almost end up reaching into a hat and yanking out her name. Same if you go to a Facebook group and say hey, you know, I'm, I'm hoping to hire an assistant who is there anybody interested? You're gonna get 10,000 people. And so how do you vet them, and that process alone feels overwhelming. Number two, most of the people that we talked to are solopreneurs. And so they are used to having their hands on every piece handling every piece. They know the processes in their head, they may have not written them down, they might not have workflows, they may not have SOPs, so then they're asking themselves, how am I going to have somebody help me when we go on autopilot, right? We just do the thing? And how am I going to teach somebody? So I think what ifs in the it's just too hard. I'll just keep doing it myself kind of take over a little bit. And then understanding the logistics. Okay, I know I need help. I'm drowning. I am losing my passion. I have no creativity left, because I'm on the verge of burnout. But how do I work with somebody? And what does that look like? And what do I? What can they do for me? And I think those questions get so heavy that we paralyze ourselves. And I think that's why reaching out to a company like ours or us or somebody who is successfully working with a VA and just talking to them. You know, Kate, like you said, and I remember during our call you were like, I think I already feel better. And I'm like yes, because it's a real thing. It really really helps more than people believe.
Kate Bendewald
Next, I wanted to talk to Tracy about how interior designers specifically can leverage the help of a virtual assistant in their business. And to start I came up with my own list, but Tracy added so many additional ideas that I hadn't thought of. Let's listen to this part of the interview. Let's get into Some of the nuts and bolts. I was actually on a call yesterday with a designer who asked me this very question, What can this system actually do for me?'' And so I have a little list here and I tried to fit in that I want you to add to this, I made a list specific for interior designers. Now I want you guys to keep in mind that a virtual assistant could do any of these things. And more so specific to interior designers, said to set up and manage trade accounts. So filling out those forms, getting your license submitted, following up making sure you've got all your login and password information put together takes time and work and it's raining, we have a whole spreadsheet because everybody that has every trade account that we work with, there's a different ordering process. There's a different, you know, way to order samples, etc. So we've always hold spreadsheet and every count that we have has that information. And it's their responsibility to. To manage that spreadsheet. So ordering samples for clients, creating specs in IV, so I use IV, but whatever tools you guys might be using, whether it's design docs, my DOMA house, pro, etc. whatever tool you use to create specifications, so, you know, we can send them a link and say we want this item here, here. Here's what we want. And then they can sort of input all that information for you for your clients, preparing product proposals for clients. Purchase Orders ordering and tracking products. Oh my god. Yes. Like somebody else does that stuff. I mean, we've got a project right now. We have over 900 items being ordered for this. Oh my goodness, do you want to track all that? No. Moving on, is dealing with the warehouse. So every time a product comes in, if there's damage, I'm just gonna look over that and see, you know, make it make it a call. Scheduling, scheduling, scheduling, oh, my gosh, think of all the things rescheduled guys. So trade day, trade day alone, you're seeing if you saw all my designers, they know what trade day is, it's the one day, usually, sometimes to where you schedule all of your trades to come in and you walk through the project with them. You have to stagger them in 30 to an hour increments to walk through and you may have a painter electrician, wallpaper, person, contractor millworker, you know, going through and sharing the drawing, sharing the specification so that they can get quotes together. It's almost an act of God to get all of those people there on one day, and staggered. But it can be done. We've done it many times, but it doesn't have a lot of work. But the work and effort it takes going into scheduling that far outweighs versus meeting with them one on one, like every other day or so and schlepping back and forth to a project. So scheduling client meetings, scheduling site visits, scheduling new client consultations. Now I know a lot of this is you get as these designers are getting a little bit more sophisticated. I use dubsado. Some of this gets automated. But still there's a lot of manual scheduling that your designer can help you with. And then social media. So my VA that I'm working with for you, she's helping them on social media. So all of this so that you can be working on designing for your clients, drawing sourcing site room visits, visiting showrooms, creating mood boards, business development, so client consultations, I brainstormed a little list, what do we do? What are we going to do client consultations, improving your website, updating your welcome package or your services guide. And then education, we all need continuing education. So going to trade shows, taking a course, sitting down and watching this trading, you know, or any of the other things you might be learning and designers oasis. So that becomes the opportunities that you have more of when you can delegate some of those more administrative type work. So chasing what else would you add to this list of things that a virtual assistant could do for you.
Tracy Harwood
The first thing I want to say is that Kate, you came to the table with systems with processes. You're kind of laughing like well, sort of. But yes. It's still in their head. Some of their people, they can do it, but they've never written it down and we love systems. So I think the first thing is, let's get your stuff systematized. Let's make an SOP somewhere, even if we're just putting it in Asana or Trello or clickup or something, some sort of project management or my goodness So even a Google Doc, let's get things written down. So we aren't reinventing the wheel every single time. And I'm mentioning this deliberately before we get to the creative stuff, because so often people come to us, and maybe they're newer in their business. And they're like, we just, I just did all my social media setup. I need my branding, damning it to look great across the board. I need to bring people in. And I'm like, Okay, let's say it works. Let's say all of our efforts work, and now people are pouring through the door. Do you even have a way to manage them? Do you even have a client system? An invoicing system? How are you going to remember, wait a minute, is this simple for a client or a client? I don't even know where I'm at right now. So let's create systems number one, and just try to get things as systematized and organized as possible. Number two, this, this probably should go at the end. But I'm gonna mention it because it's very quick. You know, what, if your dog needs to go and get his heartworm checkup every year, have your assistant make that appointment? I had a client one time and he worked for a large company. And he worked for a large business that everybody knows, and I will not say but I was the CEO of that company. And the financial gal there got mad at him one day and was like, Should Tracy be scheduling your dinner reservations? And he said, Oh, no, by all means, let me do that. Let me take about 30 minutes out of my time, because you guys, you know, your hourly wage that you pay me. I'll do that for 30 minutes, and you guys can pay me or you can pay Tracy for 30 minutes. And she was like, No, it's fine. Tracy can do it. So know what your time is worth honestly. And I had another client say to me one time, if your family is in the ditch, your business isn't going to be doing great either. So if you need to have that yearly checkup, if you need to get your dog to the vet, if your car needs to be serviced, just just make a quick mental note to tell your assistant. Hey, I know it's ridiculous. What can you just get my car scheduled for? do little things like that really do I know about now onto the creative side on social media? Yes, we can do that for you. And yes, I can find you somebody that understands the aesthetics that really understands we are representing you can replicate your brand voice all those things. But also, let's look at blogging. Because we can most of us, we can write a blog post, right, but are you truly paying attention to your keywords in your SEO? Or are you just like, oh my gosh, I have to write this blog, post them and get it done here and submit it to somebody. Look, it looks pretty in and on to the next last paying attention to it. Is that actually performing the way that it showed? Did you have the proper like, does Google even care that you just posted something. And that's why we blog so that Google cares so that we move up, right? We laugh about this all the time, I had a lady one time that kept saying to me that Google, I want to Google Google. And so let's make sure that our efforts are paying off. So writing the blog post lets you let your behavior, your SEO and your keywords and watch your analytics like we can all create a post but who's watching your analytics, who's even communicating with your people that might be responding. I am an email marketing freak right now. I am just on this email marketing kick. If we aren't doing email marketing right now we are shooting ourselves in the foot. So are you doing that because that's something you can hand off, have her read your sales funnels, have her do your lead in your opt ins everything. So those things and you know now we're getting a full picture of what we need instead of just looking you know compartmentalizing everything, let's make everything cohesively fit from social media to systems to where is your zone of genius. I don't like that term. But we all know what it means in email. Where should you be working?
Kate Bendewald
Tracy goes on to provide actionable tips for hiring and working with a virtual assistant. Perhaps you feel the need to start hiring, whether that's with the virtual assistant or someone who's more boots on the ground. Maybe that's an in office design assistant, maybe part time or full time. But you're not sure financially if you're there yet or not.
This is a great segue into my next conversation with my own accountant who helps us organize our money, look at it and evaluate how we can best spend, save and invest our earnings. Morgan Boudreau is the CEO of business by the book who offers professional bookkeeping and accounting services for interior designers, home professionals and other creative entrepreneurs. Morgan runs business by the books alongside her mother, Sherry Wilson, who founded the business. In this episode, Morgan shares how to create a user-friendly money management system. Their team works with many interior designers, and they have seen it all. So they really are experts when it comes to understanding the nuances of the interior design industry. Knowing she has seen it all I asked her this, what are the most common roadblocks designers face when it comes to bookkeeping and accounting? Let's listen to what Morgan had to say.
Morgan Boudreaux
I think that generally talking about money, it's just really hard. And especially when it comes to your business, it can be intimidating, and maybe even embarrassing to, you know, open up the can of worms and look under the hood to see what is actually going on. But you know, everyone has to start somewhere, the first step is getting somebody in to help you get things organized, so that you can see your numbers and make informed decisions. So I think it really is just not being embarrassed about the state of your business, you may have made way more money than you think. But until you get things organized, you have no idea. And so I think that that really is the first hurdle. And then I think that with a lot of designers and a lot of small businesses, it's really easy to intermingle your funds. So that's using your business accounts to pay for personal things. I like to refer to it as, get your Netflix and your Nordstrom off of your business accounts. And so it's best to pay yourself and then pay those things out of your personal accounts.
Kate Bendewald
It's so true and easy to do. But keeping your business and personal transactions separate is one of the most fundamental aspects to running a business. Finally, I asked Morgan, once you have someone like her on your team, who can provide you with financial reports, what do you tell a designer who's trying to make sense of it all? How do we read these reports? And what do we do with the information? Let's hear what Morgan has to say about this.
Morgan Boudreaux
You have to do some analysis and some synthesizing of the information in order to determine what it all means. And you have to compare, you have to use all the different numbers to determine if you think that your business is doing great or not. And so I think that you have to think about what your goals are and what your habits are when you're looking at your reports. So if you're a big spender, and you know that you're a big spender, and you know that you need to cut back because your expenses are really, really high, then when you look at your financial reports, you should be asking yourself, Where can I cut back? Where am I spending money that I don't have on the credit card, or you know, whatever. But look at your top expense categories, I always think that everyone should know what their top three to five expense categories are. And if any of those, like make your stomach flip, then that would be a pair an area that you could improve. So if you just like pre COVID, right, but like if you love taking your team out to happy hour, and you've picked up the bill every single time and your meals and entertainment line item, you know, it was like 1000s and 1000s of dollars, then you're like, Okay, maybe we can still do that. But maybe they can pay for their own drinks or meals or whatever. But on the flip side, if your advertising dollars are really high, and you're getting a lot of return on that investment, that's great, right? So you just have to think about looking at your reports, think about your goals and your habits and know where you spend your money and whether or not that makes you anxious or excited. The flip side of that is some people have a lot of money in their bank and their expenses are so low because they're afraid to pull the trigger. But then they're always asked like why do I not I'm not my client leads list. It's not that long. What could I be doing? Well, maybe you should take that step and invest in some advertising and marketing or give your assistant a raise or maybe you need to take more money. You know, give yourself a raise, like right? This is not a hobby for you guys like this if you want to be making money. And so you have to think about life and you know yourself better than anyone and so that's what you need to think about when you're looking at your Financial Reports.
Kate Bendewald
I could not be more grateful to have someone like Morgan and her team in my corner, helping me keep tabs on my finances and helping me to understand my financial picture as a business owner. Later in the episode, Morgan gets really specific about the nuances of interior design related bookkeeping, such as handling, unexpected shipping and freight charges. The benefits of using purchase orders to track all client related expenses, which can help with job costing, truly makes the bookkeeping aspect of running a design business so much easier to understand.
Next up, I want to introduce to you a woman who has niched down so specifically that her entire career is built on helping business owners craft the perfect intake form, one that qualifies buyers before the sales call, I'm going to bet you thought about maybe even agonized over the questions you ask on your intake form. These are really important questions to ask, especially when selling high ticket services such as interior design, I want to introduce to you Heidi Taylor, the expert in crafting meaningful intake forms, one that helped build great relationships. Heidi believes there's so much toxic advice out there about how to craft intake forms, and she's on a mission to help creative service providers develop meaningful first impressions with your prospective clients. Let's take a listen.
Heidi Taylor
When we think about toxic sales processes, this is a really good one too. This is a good place to start. So there's this term called bamps. And this intake form, this is an intake form of somebody from the internet that I have taken a screengrab of. And this is a great example of a bad sales process. And so anytime you're asking questions like, what's your budget be balanced, balance starts with B, which is budget. All of a sudden, I blanked on Oh, my goodness. And is it needed? T is timing. Right? So these are typical questions that yes, we need to know the answers to them. But if I mean, I've seen so many interior designers intake forms, that that's the only question that they're asking their buyers. And so what it feels like as you're extracting information to prequalify a client based on their location, their budget, their timing. And so instead of creating a relationship you're extracting, before you're even making the touch point. And it's not interior designers alone that do this, like everybody online, but not everybody. A lot of people follow this procedure, because to some degree, it works. But when you're selling a high ticket, you know, it's not, it's not great for relationship building, you're not actually gathering the most important information, which is, you know, a whole bunch of different things from your buyer that helps you sell to them. If you don't know what they value, what they want, what they need, beyond their budget and their timing, and their needs. It's a lot harder to sell something that's like, you know, in that high ticket range, whatever it is, right? Because you just don't have enough information to make a good sales conversation.
Kate Bendewald
I want you to listen to Heidi talk about this pretty audacious tool that she uses in her business when vetting clients. Pay attention to what she shares is the outcome, and how this tool sets the stage for what clients can expect working with her.
Heidi Taylor
Like this is a bit of an aside, but I think it's important because not enough service providers talk about it like I have a seven page PDF for buyers. Yeah, seven pages. It sounds so audacious doesn't it? But you know what, when I know that I'm working with the right person when they read it, and they sign it and they tell me holy crap, like, I already love you. Like, I'm already so excited to work with you. Because there's just so much respect because they're like, I can let my shoulders down. I know exactly what Heidi expects of me. And what I can expect from her. Yeah. And it just creates this really powerful container to work in. And so You know, I really, that's just everything I do right, client experience is so important. And I guess I want to inspire you to think, to take up some space, your intake for questions with your client experience. I don't know how many women are in the room. But for women, this can be a real challenge, because we're not taught to take up space.
Kate Bendewald
I thought that was so powerful. I had never thought about the ability to take up space with your intake form, this was definitely a mind shift for me.
Next up, we have Natalie Norcross, a public relations expert for interior designers. Her firm is called a design partnership. She and her team have an unwavering passion for building brands in the modern design, architecture, lifestyle and consumer markets. In this clip, Natalie shares her definition of what a brand is, as it relates to public relations. I love this definition. She then goes on to explain about the benefit of creating a marketing ecosystem, and how the benefit of doing this on autopilot helps designers to achieve more work life balance. We really believe that
you know, a brand is somebody who has memorable creative content that is amplified through a marketing ecosystem. And I get a lot of designers asking me like what in the world is a marketing ecosystem, I don't even know what that is. And so we really believe that, as you know, as you kind of create your business and build your brand, that there's elements of your marketing that kind of can fuel your business, and especially in today's digital world, creating a marketing ecosystem that runs on autopilot is ideal. So we work a lot with our designers, kind of beyond PR on a marketing strategy and getting their marketing ecosystem kind of up and running so that it's able to amplify your beautiful content on a pretty regular schedule. Consistency is really important when it comes to marketing, as well as, of course, public relations. And so, you know, creating those marketing ecosystems that can amplify your content on a regular basis doesn't just make you feel better and more confident. It actually helps you grow your business and work with long term clients that are more aligned with your values, and helps you gain a better work life balance.
Kate Bendewald
I love her definition of brand and how using this along with public relations can go as far as achieving work life balance, that was definitely a new insight for me. Next, I asked Natalie, this, if a designer was interested in getting published, but it's not quite there yet, maybe they don't have a portfolio of finished projects that a publication would be looking for. What does she suggest designers do to start prepping for and working toward that goal today, I loved what she said, Let's listen now.
Natalie Norcross
I really believe you know, the best time to start PR for your businesses now. You don't really need to wait to start PR. I mean, even if you don't have a good body of work, you can get featured as an expert in your industry, with you know, different stories and angles there. As well as profiles or speaking to trends and different trend opportunities. Like right now we're working with Elle Decor on 2021 pink color trends. So there are ways that you can kind of be positioned for press today. For the big full project features and stories, you must have, of course, good quality photos, and you know, it's a full home. And if the homeowner is willing to be involved, the likelihood of it getting picked up is even greater. Or if they have kind of an interesting story or some type of, you know, design element that you were able to achieve for them. Things of that nature are definitely really helpful. But the best time to get in to PRs today, I mean, I'm a big believer, like the sooner that you get into PR the better and quicker you're going to build the momentum the sooner that you're going to be able to really you know grow your brand and it might take that we have to like walk before you run but you know the best time to get in to PR is if not today yesterday.
Kate Bendewald
Natalie's suggestions are so clear and relevant for designers like you, no matter where you are on your journey, whether you're just starting out, or you're really leveling up into the next chapter of your design career.
Now, my final guest that I'm sharing with you today was one of my favorite conversations with my friend Chris Thomas, Creative Director at Cohen marketing, a full service branding and marketing agency. Chris's fresh perspectives to marketing is heart centered and authentic. And it's a really refreshing approach to branding and marketing. In this first clip, I had asked Chris about his career journey, and what he loved about the process of working with their branding clients. What I uncovered was that the initial discovery phase of working with branding clients isn't too different from how we might work with interior design clients to uncover their core nuggets of truth, and what their points of distinctions are for them. Let's listen.
Chris Thomas
I've been with a number of different agencies, kind of working my way up through the ranks, you know, but always with that love and passion for this, not just the design portion of it, it's great to make pretty pictures. But what's the strategy behind that? What's the foundation of that? What does the brand stand for the people and the companies that we're working with and trying to help them with their goals? So honestly, again, I've been pretty lucky because I've worked with some really amazing people. Currently, I'm at Cohn marketing, I've been there for 10 years. I'm one of two creative directors and Jeff Cohn, the founder over there is just a truly amazing leader. He's one hell of a man. And, he is a branding expert. So again, I feel like I'm constantly learning, you know, in what we do, but if I find it just I'm so excited and passionate. Anytime we roll into a new session with a new group of people, a new client, and you sit down at the table, and we've all we're all sitting there, and we're all kind of like who are you? Okay, yeah, we made the intros, and you start to get into the conversation. Right. Who are you? Where do you come from? What do you care about? Why does it matter? Why does it matter to you as a company? Why does it matter to your customers or members or whatever and then you just start digging in? I love that aspect of it. Am I going too far? Now? Should I stop? Talking? Okay. So because for us at Cohn, we are a brand first agency. And then we do everything, like you said full service, everything from you know, social, digital, out of home, TV, radio, whatever. But it all starts with that, those nuggets of truth. And that's what the brand really is. What are your distinctions? And so, I just, I mean, I just love, I love digging in, and you can hear it when people are talking, you can hear those nuggets. And you're like, Okay, that's important. That's, let's write that down. And then they'll keep saying the same thing over and over again. And you're like, Okay, it's ingrained in them, they just need help pulling it out, they need help internalizing it from a messaging from a visual standpoint, and then also externalizing it from it, whether it's a campaign or a product launch, or just because they need to regroup as to who they are as a company, because they've been around for 100 years, and how have they changed and evolved and blah, blah, blah. And it doesn't matter, honestly. Whether they're a company that has a SaaS product, or a service, like, like a design service. There's always those foundational elements that are the same throughout. And we can kind of talk more about that as we go. But anyway, so yeah, that's, that's it in a nutshell.
Kate Bendewald
I have to give you a little backstory here and how Chris came to be a guest inside the membership. Chris and his wife are dear friends of ours, we had been out to drinks. And I always love to hear from friends, what's happening in their career life. And on this particular night, Chris shared this beautiful story with me. And I loved it so much that I asked him if he could come be a guest inside the designers Oasis membership. I'll let him tell the story. But not only is it a beautiful story, but it comes back to identifying your unique selling proposition which every business owner should be able to do. Let's hear Chris, share this story.
Chris Thomas
If you get those people in the room, and you say, You know what, we're leaving our egos at the door. We're leaving our preconceived notions at the door. Yeah, we might talk about some tough things. But it'll get us to a better outcome. So once you have those discussions, the way we do it is we actually write, we write up a brand forum and that consists of what we call unique selling propositions. Yeah, I'll tell you a little story. So one of our healthcare clients is this amazing place here in Denver and Inglewood actually called Craig Hospital. And Craig Hospital focuses specifically on brain injury and spinal cord injury patients. If you don't know about Craig, they are the most amazing people doing the most amazing things. To help bring people back into their lives and to be functional, functional human beings, right? So we've gone through, this is an interesting one, we've gone through, I think 14 or 15 of these different interview settings with them with their different teams, there's a lot which is way more than we would ever do. But you get to hear everybody's everybody's cadence and what they're talking about. So when we wrote the brand, and we presented it to their CEO, Jan Dell, Ellen Davis, who's just an inspiring woman, she literally had tears in her eyes. And she was like, everything that we've been telling you everything you've seen, you've got us, you nailed it. And one of the biggest things for them was this USP, this unique selling proposition of love. Because love is what they are about, that's their mission, that's what they feel for their patients, for their internal teams, for each other, for the caregivers who are the parents, or the grandparents or whoever, of somebody who has gone through this traumatic injury. So this idea of love in healthcare, let alone is, is so different. And so, I want to, I guess, make a point there that, while that's one of their key distinctions, they're not going to go out with an advertising campaign that's all about love. They don't feel like they need to do that. But internally as a rallying cry, as they talk to the nurses and the doctors, and the the people who you know, keep the rooms clean, etc, it's like, that is a rallying cry that they can all get behind. And so that's part of an internal part of the brand, right? And that's what brand is about, it's like, is that true and honest to who you are, whatever that might be. And so you have to find those key points, you know, some people call them pillars or foundations, whatever, it's all the same thing. It's just like, you just want to find the truth. And, and they're there they're inside. Sometimes you just have to talk to unlock them, you know.
Kate Bendewald
How beautiful and honest is that story? Perhaps you can use this to inspire you to uncover or dig deeper in your own business? What are those core pillars of truth that you want the world to know? Finally, I wanted to pick Chris's brain about how to help designers think about how to use language and copywriting as part of their brands, and how it's just as important as the imagery we use. Chris goes on to describe this atom diagram being you or your business at the center of it all. And there are all these concentric circles around it, which represent touchpoints with a client. Let's hear what else Chris had to say about this.
Chris Thomas
So one of our biggest things that we like to say is that every interaction matters, trademark, every interaction matters. The reason that we like to say that we've got this kind of an atom diagram with like you at the center, your brand at the center, but then it's all of the different touchpoints, right? I don't care whether it's a social media post, I don't care, or it's the way you answer the phone. Your brand is what people recognize and think about when they think about, they think about you, they think about your company or whatever. That's what your brand is, it's the audience's perception of who you are. And if you, if you if you don't, I don't want to make this sound like oh my gosh, you know, the world is going to end. But if you don't own up to that, in every aspect, you're letting your brand down. Right. And so it's so important, as you say, to have the right visual or have the right voice for your brand, whether it's humorous or serious or technical, or whatever it might be, that you're consistent with that. It's important that you know, you have a visual language for, let's say, free, we're talking about your brand, right in the design companies right now, that's not the people you work with. Right? But for your own brand, so that it's recognizable, so that when I see, you know, Kate Bendewald, I understand your aesthetic and what you're about and you know, does that appeal to me as one of the audience members? If not, okay, then it's not the right fit, but you're owning up to who you are. And that's how you're always projecting yourself. It's so key. It's so important. And you know, and and I'll give you the example that everybody uses southwest, right? Everybody loves Southwest Airlines. Because they freakin own who they are. Yeah, funny. They're tongue in cheek. They're warm hearted, but they're experts at what they do. and they care about who you are. And they care about their own people. They've got the heart on every plane. That's their brand. And like, as soon as you experience southwest, whether it's through the app or at the gate, or whatever you're like, Okay, I feel good. Yeah. And so think about that, as you're doing your own branding. You all know how to curate your Insta profiles and posts so that you have a nice kind of clean, you know, Insta Insta profile. When people are looking through it. It doesn't smell Higgledy Piggledy and crap everywhere. But that's one aspect. You know, but it's but again, it's like it's do you and what do you stand for? Do you stand for things that are, you know, community minded. And you want to speak out about that in your voice, great. Own that. If you're like, Nope, don't want to touch that. Totally cool. You don't have to, but own but be true to your brand, be true to who you are. And people will appreciate that, and they will recognize it, and they will want more from you for it.
Kate Bendewald
Throughout that episode, I just got goosies from all the nuggets of truth that Chris had to share.
I want to quickly give a special thank you to the guests that I've shared with you today. Molly Tracy, Morgan, Heidi, Natalie and Chris, thank you so much for your time, we'll be sure to link to their information in the show notes below in case you want to check them out. Because there is more willing to all of the amazing guests and topics covered that are only available in the designers Oasis membership. We've had more than I have time to mention right now. But you can see all of them on our website. And we have some incredible names lined up for the rest of this year and beyond. I really hope that you enjoyed today's highlights from the guest experts' experience, I hope that you found a couple of nuggets of truth, maybe something that shifted for you. Maybe an idea that has sparked new thoughts about how to think about your business, how to treat your business, your experience with your clients, whatever the case may be.
I hope that you've found something here that has really sparked some ideas for you. I hope you'll join me again soon for another episode. Bye for now. Thank you so much for letting me spend part of this day with you. If you're loving this podcast, please share it with a friend who you think might also love it. Or perhaps you can take just 30 seconds to open your podcast app and leave us a five star rating. And if you have just an extra minute, go ahead and leave a review. This helps me so much and it helps other designers like you to find the podcast. It also adds fuel to my motivation to keep making great episodes just for you. However you choose to help. Please know I appreciate you so very much. Thank you, my friend. Have a wonderful rest of your day and I'll see you next time
