EP #63 | Transitioning to an Interior Design Career with Libby Rawes
Welcome to the Designers Oasis podcast. I'm your host, Kate Bendewald. If you're tired of one-size-fits-all all advice to running your interior design business, you're in the right place. Join me each week as we dive into topics to help you run a thriving interior design business. Without the hustle. We'll talk about the business of design, but also mindset and mental health because I know when you thrive, so will your life and business. It wasn't that long ago that I stepped away from my corporate interior design job to build my own design business so that I could realize my own creative dreams, have more time with the people I love, and serve my clients at the highest level, while making more money than I ever could have working for someone else. It wasn't always easy, and I made my share of mistakes along the way. Fast forward to today. And I've learned a thing or two. Since then I've built multiple six-figure interior design businesses on authentic word-of-mouth referrals with many repeat clients. And I want to share it all with you the ambitious, inspired, and I get it occasionally overwhelmed interior designer who shares this dream of transforming lives through the art of interior design, You can do this. Thank you for letting me spend part of this day with you. Let's get to it.
Kate Bendewald
My guest today on the podcast is Libby Ross from sharp and gray interiors out of Philadelphia. I first met Libby as a student inside the interior designers business blueprint program. She was one of the very first members founding members. So she's been around for a long time. And what I love about her is I mean, first of all, I've had the true privilege of getting to see her dedication to her business pay off. She is smart, she is curious. And she was truly dedicated. And it hasn't always been easy for her, you know. And so I knew that she would be willing to share some of that story, some of that journey, she pivoted to interior design after leaving her marketing and branding career. And so today she's going to share with us a little bit about how that experience and that skill set played into her ability to serve her interior design clients really well. And she gives some really solid advice on how you if you're considering a career change, or you're pivoting, how you can draw upon the past skills that you've had, no matter what they are, and bring them into your career as an interior designer. And so we talked about that. We talked about investing in your business and how scary and important to convey. We talked about hiring and hiring the right roles and how sometimes you get it wrong. And sometimes you get it right. And, you know, I just am so grateful that she was willing to share honestly and openly about her story, her journey. She's a mom, one of the things that I think you'll see comes out so beautifully as we listen to her is how much she cares for her clients and how much she she gets how home. She's a residential designer, how much home supports them and can help them live a better life feel happier, feel more joy, feel more comfort, peace. And she really wants she's really committed to helping her clients achieve that milestone in their lives. And so you're in for a real treat. Please welcome my guest Libby Ross to the show. Cool. Hi, loving the Welcome. Welcome to the show. How are you today?
Libby Rawes
I'm great. Thank you. Thanks for having me.
Kate Bendewald
Oh, my gosh, our guest today is Libby Rawls from sharp and gray interiors. She runs a full service interior design firm out of your right outside of Philadelphia, right?
Libby Rawes
Yep, just outside of Philadelphia.
Kate Bendewald
Cool. I'm not Libby. A number of years ago, she joined the interior designers business blueprint program. As a founding member. She was one of the very early adopters and that's how I was first introduced to you but what I love about you and really excited to bring you in today into chat and share with our listeners about your business journey is because I saw right away I was like this is somebody who gets it. You were so on fire. You're so on point and you were just consistently making really great progress, just huge strides. And I, and there was a moment there was just like whiplash, I was like, holy smokes, look at this lady, she's on fire. And it just made me so excited for you to sort of get to pure, pure, a little bit into that journey and get to see that unfold for you. And so you've got, you've learned so much, you've grown so much, you are really thriving. And I wanted to bring you in and sort of hear a little bit more detail about kind of that journey and how it unfolded for you and share with our listeners. What were some of the hard parts to because, you know, we make it look easy, right? And we put up the polished version of everything. But you and I know, that's not always how it unfolds. And so I'm hoping we can just share a little bit about that with our with our listeners. How's that sound?
Libby Rawes
Absolutely. Sounds great.
Kate Bendewald
Awesome. Okay. So I want to back up a little bit. You first of all, you're Native Denver. Right, right, which is where I am awesome. And in 20, in 20 2011, is when you left Denver, and you and your family moved to Philadelphia, right outside of Philadelphia, and understand that it was at that point you bought a home? That is an historic home? It's got that East Coast vibe to it. And was that the inspiration and the turning point of your career shift? Because you had been you had a 20 year career in branding and marketing before that, but was that the turning point where you sort of pivoted to interior design? Was it the the makeover renovation? The nurturing of that specific home that changed the direction of your career?
Libby Rawes
Yeah, I mean, I think I attribute it to that, you know, long story short, I'm from Denver, and I moved to the east coast where nothing felt like home, it felt completely different. It's like a different country. You know, people would ask me, like, is there anything the same? I'm like, No, the squirrels are even, like, different templates here. Like, everything's different. I was very, I don't know, if I was ever, like, really had my head wrapped around moving. And we ended up buying this house. And you know, you're from Denver, but it was like a Park Hill House. It was like, Yeah, this, you know, it's this big kind of brick for square home. And I was, I wasn't the happiest with the move. So I threw myself into the house. And it kind of it allowed me to create a home where I was away from home. And it just started getting me thinking how important it is. I mean, I think all of us went through this pandemic, and realized how important home is. But I think that, you know, I kind of learned that with this move is like, you know, you may not be in your home, but creating your own home, in your space where you feel comfortable that you can like, be with your family was just rewarding. And I started taking classes and doing it on the side. And here we are.
Kate Bendewald
Well, so that was that was whole Gosh, 10 years ago, right. Did you did you start? Were you doing marketing back there when you moved? Or did you leave that behind? Okay, so you did start doing that. And, and what you were sort of doing both at the same time for a little bit is that yeah,
Libby Rawes
I was in a corporate job for eight years. I just started full time extra up and gray just kind of made the dive three years ago. Before that I had spent about a year and a half doing it part time. Right about the eight year mark right before the pandemic ended my corporate job. They wanted to move everyone ironically back into the office. And they asked me to move to New York, and I didn't want to move and go to the office. So I was like, Well, I guess it's time it's time to go full time with this thing. And ironically enough, nobody went back to the office. Because, you know, we all were stuck at home. So yeah, yeah, the nice thing about my corporate job is they gave us a really long runway, they they actually did a kind of a large layoff, and I had probably 868 months where I was working. And because everybody knew I was leaving. I didn't have much. Nobody was involving me in things. So I just kind of built the business while I was still working, you know, so and then if you've had that opportunity, yeah, it was really a gift actually, because it gave me a long time to kind of get you know, some of the process and some of my structure in place. And it allowed me to kind of like hit the ground running.
Kate Bendewald
Yeah, yeah. So when you are first getting started you you mentioned in private to me that you had you had a little bit of fear when you were first getting started around. Are people going to hire me because I'm not a I'm not following this traditional interior design education path. I come from this corporate marketing background, but you had a little bit of, I don't know if you would call it impostor syndrome, but this fear that you weren't going to get hired or you weren't going to find the work. I don't know what your inner dialogue was for you at that time. But it sounds like most people, you had some of that. Those questions like, well, I don't have a degree, I don't know what I'm doing. Who am I? Who am I to do this? Right? Yeah. How did you? How did you sort of work through that and move past
Libby Rawes
that? Yeah, so I mean, coming from branding, marketing, it's, in my mind, it's all optics, it's, it's kind of what you put out there is what people are going to take in. So I did, I thought, who's gonna hire a designer who's only been doing it professionally for a year, so I kept that or less than a year kind of on the side, right. So I kept some of that quiet, I took it into account, when I named my firm, it hasn't. And for a reason, I wanted it to feel bigger than just me doing it. And I didn't want it just to be my name, I want it I just wanted it to feel bigger. And I kind of did keep some of that quiet. And oddly enough, I think I'd realized throughout the process, I actually realized that pretty quickly, that it's kind of like a superpower is this this professionalism that you bring, it's allowed me to take it on in a different way than I think some people who just jump out of school and, and try to do design, because there's so much behind the scenes that you have to kind of understand you have to understand how to communicate with people. And you have to understand how to serve them information and create an experience. And not only did I use what I learned in corporate America to do that, I also kind of learned the persona of my clients, you know, there are these, you know, I got used to working with high up people and having to present to them and, you know, just realize they're just people who are busy, and they need help and and they're the first to step out and say, This is not my expertise. And if you serve them up and experience that they're used to it, it's easier for them to hop on board. So that's, I think it's been helpful in a multitude of ways. But those two especially.
Kate Bendewald
Yeah, I want to dig into that a little bit. Because I mean, you, you and I have known each other for a number of years down. So you know how important branding is to me and I, I want to you know, our audience is smart, right? They the folks listening most of them, they get that a brand is more than colors, fonts, logo tagline, even copywriting, you know, even that that part of it, most of them understand that client experience is part of your brand. And if you're listening and you didn't know that before, now you do. So you know, you say branding should be consistent and felt through every point in the customer's journey with you. It's a process to build and it's always evolving. So I want to hone in on this idea for a minute about the your brand, your client process, your client experience is always evolving. Can you share with me some of the evolutions of your own client process? As it relates to your brand? How have you woven your brand into your client experience overtime?
Libby Rawes
Yeah, I mean, I think it's, you have to start with with manageable chunks. Right. I coming from marketing has been helpful, but I mean, I will say it's, it's challenging to because I was used to having multiple millions of dollars to work with, I don't have that anymore. So I've had to, you know, sometimes temper my expectations and, you know, just take it piece by piece and, you know, you start started with a website that I felt like was okay, and I started with copy that I wrote that was okay. And, you know, started really layering in. I mean, I started doing professional photography very early. With a mutual friend of ours. She she did my first project and showed me the ropes with photography and selling
Kate Bendewald
it there real quick sidenote. So Libby's from Denver, I live in Denver, and I was on a photoshoot with Suzy Brenner, who's a photographer here. And she's met. She's like doing her thing midway through. She's like, Oh, yeah, I think you know, my friend Libby. Didn't you guys have known each other to high school together? Right, or you guys have known each other since you're 15? Oh, my God. Yeah, that's like such a small world. Anyway, she's lovely. So you started working with her? And yeah,
Libby Rawes
so I you know, I kind of right at the end of 2019. My very first project was done. There was a kitchen that I did on the side. They were lovely clients who trusted me 100% And I was really able to do something I think was special and I was like, alright, don't have a ton of budget. I'm gonna fly you out here and we're going to just hang out all weekend and we're going to take photos and she kind of showed me The ropes and we photographed this project, we photographed my house. And you know, it changed kind of the trajectory of the website at that point where the photography started getting more professional, I ended up hiring a copywriter and added that in. And then last year, I spent a lot of effort and time on public relations, I rebranded, I think and I think what I say when Evolve is like, I worked on my mission and vision very early, I kind of understood where I was going. It may be it wasn't perfect, but it was always came from this kind of idea that home kind of creates your happiness, right? As it always had for me, and how do we make that? How do we bring that through everything? And how do we design these homes that are beautiful, but like, they're livable, they're not, they're not things that you can't touch, and you can't live with them, you know, kind of evolving that, but also, making sure that that experience is felt throughout from the time you call me to the time I hug you goodbye and give you your photographs, like it's an experience every way. So, you know, you started slow. And you added in?
Kate Bendewald
Yeah, dive into that experience a little bit. So you just gave a couple of examples. But how, specifically with the clients, that your interactions with them? How do you? How does your brand show up? You know, because you, you, you talked about, you know, you, you and I were the same we're, we're the same kind of people like we are home people, I had a client tell me that one time to do like when people you know, I have friends, they're not home people, it's just not something that they put a lot of interest or value in like, it's it serves a function, right? And they are my friends, they are not my clients, right? And so you get it, you know that and you're tapping into the minds and hearts of your clients, right when you're putting together this mission and vision and your your copywriting. But you you talk about how it shows up in the process, too. Can you give some examples of how, how that might show up in your interactions with your clients?
Libby Rawes
Yeah, so I would say that my process is definitely outlined. It's one of the very first things I did, what's it going to be like, when they call me? What will they receive? I automated a lot of it very quickly, because I found that just managing, you know, the scheduling was difficult, and I templated emails early on, and I just tried to make it as seamless as possible. And even when they talk to me, I try to I tend to be a people person, I would say, I'm definitely more of an approachable, kind of more casual type person. So like my conversations with people or even that way, it's yeah, hi, how are you? You know, are you having like, what about the weather? You haven't? It's, it's also that Colorado person in me that will chat with you in the grocery line, you know? Yeah, yeah. So just like getting to know them building a rapport, even if it's just for a minute, talking to them about their you know, if it's on the Discovery call, we talk about, you know, things that they're going through what they're looking for, and, and then they immediately get a consultation, they get documentation, which a lot of it I've I've, you know, started from you being in your program. You know, they they get an idea of what the services they can you know, what they can have they, I helped kind of fit them into what I think is the best and, you know, I just try to treat them like their friends immediately, even though they are clients and but I just try to be that person who makes it easy, because it's complicated. This is a complicated, infinitely complicated industry. And I mean, every day, I'm like, Oh, could it ever just be simple, but it's not. And you have to like, boil this down for people so that they can so that they can follow along. If we're having trouble following along, they're definitely not going to get it. So I try to serve up information that is bite size. And, you know, this is what's coming next. But I'm not going to tell them what happens at the end leave that for later, you know, kind of lead them down the journey is Michael. Yeah. Yeah.
Kate Bendewald
I just heard you say two really important things. One, I mean, when I look at your website, and I look at your beautiful interiors, to me, they they exude warmth, and in a casual illness but but still elevated. And that comes through on your initial discovery call just simply in the way that the tone of your voice, the tone of your words, and how you talk to them, is really setting the stage for how you want to interact and the fact that you're taking those calls directly with these clients rather than outsourcing them, which is a choice and is an option, right? I think says something about the kind of people that you want to work with and the kind of people that you want to attract. You know, they're also going to be the kind of people who want homes that have that same sort of warmth about them that that you bring to the table. The other thing that I heard you say was that you you under stands that you're working with clients who are busy. And that's why they're coming to you. And you understand the value and importance of not overwhelming them with information and in doing an information overload and on those initial stages and sort of drip feeding that information. And that is something that I had to learn. One of the very first coaches that I ever hired was a sales coach, because I learned right away like I am butchering these discovery calls, I don't know what I'm doing, I don't have a process. And it was it was a huge at the time was a huge amount of money for me to invest in. But what I learned from her, that was one of the things that I learned from her was the importance of, of not overwhelming them with information. And I learned so much more. And so much of that is what I I've practiced over the years now teach people, but you get that you get that if you can make it look easy, make it feel easy, then they feel like they've they found their person that they're like, oh, yeah, she's our she's our Savior, she's going to help us get through this. And it's going to be great. Now, let's pivot a little bit because you, you, you laid a really strong foundation early on. And you talked about hiring a professional photographer early on. And so I want to talk a little bit about the importance of investing in your business and hiring and that growth process. Because what I've seen is that because you laid such a strong foundation early on, and you really got it, that it was a natural consequence that you were going to grow quickly. And so I want to start with the investing piece you have invested in your business in a number of ways, through hiring photographer, professional photographers, copywriters. But I also understand that you decided a number of years to go to invest in a PR firm and work with a PR professional to help you. I know that they are not cheap to work with, and that they're very valuable. So how did you decide that that was the right next investment for your business? versus say, advertising or other avenues that you could have taken? Why Why was the PR thing important for you?
Libby Rawes
So my, my thinking was that it created, you know, second party credibility. It wasn't me telling you that I'm amazing, right? Because any advertiser is going to tell you that it's somebody it's you know, it's it's a trusted source, it's a publication that people read telling you, I mean, PR is a whole business, right? There's, there's things that they pitch, but if they like it enough to put it in their pages, or on their website, it lends this credibility, it's definitely an investment, it was a lot of work, I learned a lot. And it ultimately has given me a lot more exposure, that feels more natural than sending up advertising all the time. I mean, I'm a firm believer in advertising. I'm a firm believer in all of that. But this felt a little different. This felt out of my comfort zone. And something that I don't know if anybody out there has tried PR but without these, like relationships, it's really tough. You know, you can read all the notes and say, I'm gonna, you know, send out my letters, and I'm gonna try to come up with my hook. And, but it's very hard to get noticed. I will say, though, my first my first PR experience, the first time I was published, I got the cover of a magazine, which I got on my own, which I'm pretty proud of. But the rest of it is, it's hard. So I hired it out. And it did, it gave me a lot of exposure, but it is it was a little too expensive for me to keep up at this point. I would say I would probably revisit it down the road.
Kate Bendewald
Yeah, sure. Well, it seems like that can be one of those things that, you know, yes, it does take traction, it does. It probably is one of those things a lot like advertising that the longer you do it, the more effective it is. But I can also see the value of doing something like that for a period of time just to give you that little nudge to get you to the other side. And now you know, when you go to your website, you can see the credentials on your homepage, which are our major publications. And I think you're right, I think that speaks volumes to people who are visiting about the credibility. So even if it is not sustainable. In the long run, it could be a wise choice temporarily as long as you can sustain it long enough to make it a valuable experience. And it sounds like that's where you landed.
Libby Rawes
And that's kind of it is I took last year when it's 2023 I took last year and was like this. I consciously made this effort to level up so that was the year that I had enough photography to get the PR coverage. That was the year that I spent and invested in my website. It was more of an investment year for me and I did do that consciously to try to like get into bigger projects and get that credit Larry
Kate Bendewald
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Kate Bendewald
We talk about seasons a lot right seasons in business, and you're gonna go through seasons, whether you're intentional about it or not what we all do, but when you do it intentionally, like you did, I think the outcomes are so much more effective. Right? Because you know, you know, at the end of the year, this might not be my most profitable year yet. But the whole point of investing is that you're gonna see that come back to you tenfold, a hundredfold, whatever the case may be. And, and I think there's a lot of designers especially early on when you're just getting started, and there's simply not a whole lot of extra to go around. If you can invest just the tiniest bit in your business, you'll see it come back to you and then there's more to invest in, then those investments don't feel quite so painful, right? And it feels like oh, man, like that sales coach. That was a lot of money. And I think it was like, I don't even know, like four or $5,000 for her course and working with her at the time. And that was a tremendous amount of money. I mean, it's still a lot of money to me. But looking back now I can see how it benefited. Yeah. And in there is a I think an intuition and a knowingness and a trust that you have to have when it comes to investing. But also like, I mean, I've made investments while I'm, I'm sort of reeling from one right now, you know, that was supposed to help us have a better understanding of our numbers. And it just turned out to be an investment that didn't pay off. And it kills me it absolutely kills me. So that's not to say that sometimes, you know, you're gonna, you might make an investment and it doesn't work out or doesn't pan out, but the only way to know is to try it or to weigh those risk factors to
Libby Rawes
trust your gut because you need to I mean, I personally think you have to be really honest, what you're good at and what you're not, you know, it's hard to it's sometimes a hard thing to do, but say this is not I mean, I can I'm good at marketing and advertising. I understand that, but I did not understand PR so it's an understanding, like at that point, I was like I need a professional copywriter. This stuff I'm writing is I'm not a copywriter. It's not cutting it, you know, and I need a good photographer because my iPhone stuff is not cutting it. So yeah, just kind of adding those layers.
Kate Bendewald
And so are you seeing the quality of your clientele that's coming through the doors? Is that reflected in the the kinds of projects that you're you're seeing come through today?
Libby Rawes
Yeah, I would say that. It's definitely I'm getting more kind of whole home For larger renovations, I mean, I'm working on like, probably five right now that are multiple room, big construction type projects, you know, still nowhere near where I want to be. So it's always a work in progress, but it's definitely changed. It's less, it's more ideal clients, you know, think back to when I started and some of the jobs I was taking, and I was like, what was I doing? You know, why was I Why was I trying to do this or fitting, trying to fit these people into full service when like, it didn't fit, you know, or, you know, taking on projects that maybe paid but didn't have any creative value, or, you know, so I'm getting a lot less of that. Where I feel like I get the creative value, but I also get, you know, I can actually ask for what I'm worth. And that's been a, you know, that's a whole other whole breadth, but you know,
Kate Bendewald
yeah, yeah. Well, and I think we always feel like, well, I've never where I want to be, but I try to remind others and remind myself of this, you're exactly where you need to be right now. You know, you are exactly where you need to be right now. But you, yeah, so you're saying that it's paying off that you're not getting as much of the kinds of projects that don't let you have creatively, and that you're getting, you know, you're attracting clients that have the kind of budgets not only for their projects, but for you and clientele, that that values you and that is the dream, the dream for most designers. So I hope you I hope you recognize that. Well, let's talk about this for a second. Because you're you're busy. Right? You are busy. Since we met, you've hired I believe, at least two team members that I know of. So I want you to take us back a little bit too before you had anyone on your team. So many designers asked me and I want to get your hot take on this, Kate, how do I know when to hire, they are afraid to hire too soon, and that they won't be able to sustain the work for them. But then they're also afraid to hire too late one, they're already in the weeds. And they, you know, it's they don't have the time to either even find the right person to hire. So for me personally, it's always been a strong dose of intuition and just listing that I have the ability to bring forth the work, but also knowing what's in the bank. So how did you know when it was the right time to make that first hire? And how did you decide what role to hire for first, I'm curious.
Libby Rawes
So, I mean, again, I feel like I'm a pandemic designer, where I, you know, really got my I got trial by it, you know, you just it's like a firing squad of work. And I was trying to homeschool my kids and I was trying to keep it all together. So I it's hard to like, I'm just I feel like we're just now getting into a cycle that's a little more realistic of how it should work. But I was just inundated with work. So I forgot I photographed this, that project right before the pandemic, I released it, and started promoting it like a few weeks, maybe before the pandemic and then all the business just started kind of rushing in good battle, whatever all of it came in. And I was thrilled, I was not quite ready. But I just I worked really, really hard. And I quickly kind of realized that the admin kind of the management of all the things is not my strong suit, I tend to be the more of a big picture. So as much as I know, the details are what make it work. They're just they take more energy for me. So I hired actually a part time contractor who was a friend of mine who actually worked in corporate with me, so I knew her very well, we had worked together and she was you know, she just kind of took some stuff and ran with it. She ended up moving on and I took on a part time person who wasn't you know, the exact rate that she was helpful at the time. And then I finally, you know, put out. And it's interesting because I at that point, I had a few more followers on Instagram, I had a few more fans, you know, people who followed me, that I've talked to and this, you know, I said we're hiring and this woman who lives actually just very close to me reached out and I'm actually kind of proud to say that everyone who works with me is also has a second career. So this was her second career out of marketing. But she's she's this organizational like Ninja where I just can't. It's just beyond so she takes care of all of the stuff that like I can't do and I specifically hired someone who wasn't in design for that role, because I think I think I just needed someone who just knew how to manage stuff and could manage people and who could talk to clients and kind of all the things that I said earlier. So she's been with me for over a year. She's just part time. And then most recently Back up a little bit more. For a while I was using a lot of contractors, maybe some people to help sourcing, they outsource all my drawings. I was even outsourcing like site visits to architecture students to take measurements just because oh, well, I had no time. So but most recently, I've hired another part time contract designer, again, second career corporate.
Kate Bendewald
I'm gonna clarify something for the listener. So would you say contractors, you're talking about independent contractors? Yes, doing design or admin, not a general contractor, but independent contractors who are doing various roles. I just want to clarify that because I could see how that might be a little bit confusing. Okay, go ahead.
Libby Rawes
Yep. So she works on a contract basis. She's been with me for just a few months, it's been, it's been awesome, because I don't know how much you've outsourced. But like, when you're outsourcing to numerous different people who are just hopping in and hopping out, there's no girl like this quarterback. So all I was doing was quarterbacking work.
Kate Bendewald
I'm like, I don't know anything about football. What is the quarterback,
Libby Rawes
just throwing stuff
Kate Bendewald
lost on me.
Libby Rawes
I was, but I felt like I had to manage, I had to manage everything. But like, I'm sending this to you now send it back to me. And then I'll send it to this person. And it's like you're stuck in the middle. So I wanted someone who could own a project start to finish who could come with their own creative ideas. Because the other thing about with, you know, just hiring someone to do SketchUp is I still had to draw it all out. And I had to give you no exact, you know, instruction. So I wanted someone who could say, hey, what about this and somebody to collaborate with because it can be like a lonely can be a lonely life being you know, getting in your own head and be like, this is look terrible? Or is this good? Or like, I just need to ask somebody. So it's been great.
Kate Bendewald
Yes, 100%, I totally understand that. And I have been fortunate to work with some really talented designers who I know, you know, us working together is going to have way better results than just me doing it on my own. And it does feel good to feel like you can bounce those ideas off from but the other thing I'm hearing that it's true for me and it and I hear that it resonates for you too, is that there's when you have somebody who they're not an independent contractor in the sense that they're running their own business, but they're theirs, they're working side by side with you that there's a lot more accountability, there's more skin in the game, there's more ownership. And the result from that is far better than somebody who's just, as you say, popping in and popping out. And in, I've always considered that as an option. And the first way you did it, I've never actually implemented it. But that was always a hesitation of mine was like, I feel like I'm just gonna have to explain this to death. And by the time explaining it, I could have done it myself. So you know, I know that there are some designers who have found that to work, you know, for a little while, I just don't see that being a long term solution, you're really looking to grow a business and have somebody grow with you. And she might be a contractor right now. But she very well could grow into an employee role. And when you get to that level, you are really working with people, ideally who are super reliable and super accountable. And it feels like it's a good place to be. So what you're saying I think is, you know, starting small and and you you started and had a couple of misses. And I think it's important to really point that out too. And I certainly have that that's just part of the gig, that's part of the deal. You're not going to I mean, my very, very first hire was phenomenal. She was out of this world, and those were huge shoes to fill out. Right. And I feel like I just got lucky in that case. But yeah, you know, there were a couple of misses after that. And I think there's so much fear around for designers, when hiring. What if it doesn't work out? So what but it doesn't work out?
Libby Rawes
It's a very, I mean, I will say hiring has been scary. And I I will also say that I've mentioned this before that starting a business is easy, but growing the business is so much harder because you don't you don't know. And sometimes it is intuition, and sometimes it's a leap and sometimes it's poring over spreadsheets of your financials and being like I hope this is the right choice. And, you know, it's a dose of both but it's it's definitely more nerve wracking than just starting a business. You know,
Kate Bendewald
I think that is the soundbite OF THE YEAR Libby that is so true. It is it again that goes back to the seasons that like starting a business is an initial season but there's there's always going to be different challenges. It's just The challenge has changed depending on what what season you happen to be in. So we're heading into a season where we're starting to think about what we might want for ourselves next year in business, how we might evolve next year, and perhaps setting some goals. You mentioned that this last year has been a big year of investing in your business. Have you started to think about what's next, what you want to focus on in the year ahead? And what's next for you?
Libby Rawes
Yeah, so I think, you know, looking back, it was a year of investment, and then I've been working on just kind of refining and learning, you know, kind of refining my process says, and how I work with clients, and, you know, how we manage these things. And I think that, you know, next year, my goal, I think what I'm moving into, and I think I'm already started is like this, focus on partnerships, like building partnerships with trade vendors, and, you know, because for a while the work was just pouring in from every direction. And, you know, as you get to, you know, bigger projects, I think it's more, it's naturally more competitive, it's naturally a little bit more about who, you know. So I'm really trying to kind of focus on like, partnerships, and how do I, you know, nurture you because, because we're clients, you know, our clients, our clients, but our trade partners are also kind of internal clients, I would call them, you know, we want to kind of nurture those relationships, too, and build them and hopefully have a reciprocal kind of working relationship where we kind of give each other work and grow together is my hope. So, yeah,
Kate Bendewald
so are you talking about like, builders, general contractors, realtors? Is that what you mean, when you talk about partnerships?
Libby Rawes
Yeah, I think, um, I think I'm kind of like, in my mind, I'm getting back to like, those networking days where it's, you know, meeting realtors, and, you know, reaching out to architects and Marketo, being a list of, you know, good contractors that, you know, hopefully we can work with. Yeah, it's funny, I feel I contractors, I'm used to working with them. So I tend to, you know, call them first because there is, so I'm like, trying to branch out, and I'm like, I need to start calling architects and, you know, finding ways to just build those relationships, you know, maybe go to networking event sort of join, you know, join, like women's groups, or just those kind of grassroots like feet on the street type of things.
Kate Bendewald
Yes, yes, I love that. And, you know, I am so grateful that we're in a time and a place where we can do that. And it's, there's nothing more valuable than building personal relationships that are authentic, right, and mutually beneficial. And they become mutually beneficial when they are authentic. And you just can't be an in person conversation and the energy that you exchange with people. And there's so many ways that you can do that. And of course, networking events, or continuing education events are great ways to do that. And, you know, for me, personally, I am not. This is a goal of mine, I'm working on it i public speaking and standing alive in front of people and put it you know, one way directional information exchange, that is just not something I'm comfortable with yet, I would like to get there. But having lunch with somebody, or learning about what somebody else does, professionally, so that I can maybe try to send people their way like that is a tone and a beat that I can stick to. So if you're listening and you're thinking about, Oh, I want to do, that's a great idea. I'm in a season where I need to start to think about partnerships. I love, you just mentioned a couple of really specific ways that you could do that. But I really encourage you to think about what, what is a good fit for your personality. Because it's not, it's not the same for everybody, right? There's no one size fits all approach to how you can market your business. But building those building those relationships is really important. And how you do that can look a number of different ways. As we wrap up, I want I want you to talk for a moment we're gonna we're gonna get into a little coaching moment, you're gonna coach your younger self. I want you to to talk for a moment directly to that listener who's considering a career change who may be thinking to themselves. You were thinking however, many years ago that was, what would you say to that person who's on the fence? They are thinking about a career change and pivoting? What would you say to that person not taking those first few scary steps? Can you sort of reach back and talk to your younger self and coach them just a little bit? What would you say to them?
Libby Rawes
I mean, I would say trust in your ability and may not come from interior design that might not be your you know, your past and what you what you know, it might not be what you were trained in. But there's so much value that I actually think like, like I said, when I was trying to minimize it, I think it was a bad idea. Because I mean, there's so much value in this stuff that doesn't have to be. It doesn't have to be directly related, you know, if you're, if you have experience in anything, like try to figure out how it lends itself to growing a business, maybe you're great at, you know, graphic design, or maybe you're great at events, you know, there's all these different things that you can bring to the table. But don't, they just don't relate always. So I think you just have to come to trust that there's something in there, and how do you pivot and use it to your advantage? And how do you how do you grow from?
Kate Bendewald
Perfect, I love that. It's so true. And I think if you can move the emphasis off of the experience and put the emphasis on Well, what are the skills that I gained from that experience? That's a really perfect jumping off point. And that is one of the very first lessons that we talked about inside the Blueprint is, you know, I would say probably 80% of the people who I work with are people who are pivoting from a different career, you know, I didn't I went to school for interior design, I I've done different types of design, residential, commercial, large scale, small scale. And so, you know, my only experience prior to that it was like waiting tables in college. And for the longest time, I was just like, I did not see any value. In that experience.
Libby Rawes
There is you learned how to help you learn how customer service and how to manage your time and how to, like, get stuff done and deal with challenges. I mean, I was a waitress and I dropped the lemonade on someone I had to deal with that, you know, like it, everything happens. And you grow from that. So
Kate Bendewald
Exactly, exactly. I, I, I worked. There's a member who she was a private investigator for the FBI prior to pivoting to interior design. And she was like, Kate, what the hell? How does that relate? And we had to dig a little bit, but it didn't take long for us to realize, oh, wow, you have an uncanny ability to ask really pointed questions. Quickly dig deeper and understand what's really behind this motivation. Right. And that was a huge lightbulb moment for her. I've talked to a lot of people coming from finance, you know, trying to understand how that works. I'm like that, for me. That's an easy one. You know, it's huge, huge, huge learning people's money. It's great. Yeah. Yeah, that's exactly. So I love that you said that. Because it's it's something that's it's a topic that's near and dear to my heart, too, that, you know, unless you've been sitting on the couch for the last 20 years, you have something to offer, even if you've been a stay at home mom, which is one of the hardest jobs in the world to have. There's tremendous value in that work as well. And oh, my god, like you would imagine. And so there's there's value in that as well. So if you're sitting here listening, thinking, how can I draw upon my past experiences really dig into what are those specific skills that you developed in that experience? And start with that, and Lydia, you are, you are right on point to remind our listeners of that. I could sit here and chat with you forever. But I know you are one busy lady, you've got a whole lot of clients that you're helping right now. But before we go, can you just share with our listeners? Where can people find you online?
Libby Rawes
Oh, you can find me at sharpen gray.com. That's sh ARP, the word and gr E Y. Just to be different. Put an E in there. Or you can find me at sharp and gray on Instagram, Facebook, or Pinterest, I believe.
Kate Bendewald
Yeah, we will be sure to link to all of that in the show notes. But go follow her on Instagram. She is dishing up some beautiful interiors. And really, really fun to watch what what you're posting there. So Libby, thanks so much. I appreciate your time today and for you sharing all about your journey. And I'm so excited to see what unfolds for you in this year ahead.
Libby Rawes
Now, it's my pleasure. Thank you so much for having me. Awesome.
Kate Bendewald
Bye for now. Hey, friend, thank you so much for letting me spend a part of this day with you. I'm so passionate about helping designers like you. And I believe in a rising tide that when one of us does well we all do better. So if you share this attitude of abundance with me, I want you to do just one little thing, please share this episode with someone using might love it. And if you're feeling extra generous today, go ahead and take just 30 seconds to open your podcast app and leave us a five star rating and review. It's free for you to do and it helps me to be able to keep making more episodes and resources for you. However you choose to help, please know I appreciate you so very much. Thank you, my friend. Have a wonderful rest of your day. I'll see you soon.
