#80 | 8 Problem Solving Strategies for Interior Designers When Things Go Wrong

Welcome to the Designers Oasis podcast. I'm your host, Kate Bendewald. If you're tired of one-size-fits-all all advice to running your interior design business, you're in the right place. Join me each week as we dive into topics to help you run a thriving interior design business. Without the hustle. We'll talk about the business of design, but also mindset and mental health because I know when you thrive, so will your life and business. It wasn't that long ago that I stepped away from my corporate interior design job to build my own design business so that I could realize my own creative dreams, have more time with the people I love, and serve my clients at the highest level, while making more money than I ever could have working for someone else. It wasn't always easy, and I made my share of mistakes along the way. Fast forward to today. And I've learned a thing or two. Since then I've built multiple six-figure interior design businesses on authentic word-of-mouth referrals with many repeat clients. And I want to share it all with you the ambitious, inspired, and I get it occasionally overwhelmed interior designer who shares this dream of transforming lives through the art of interior design, You can do this. Thank you for letting me spend part of this day with you. Let's get to it.

Hello, hello. Hello. Welcome back to the designers Voices Podcast. I'm your host, Kate Bendewald. I'm so excited to be back with you today for a solo episode. And today we are sharing a listener question where they have experienced a client challenge. And while the situation that she's shared with us is unique to her what's not unique is this idea of handling client challenges that inevitably come up. If you haven't yet faced a challenging client situation, you simply haven't been in business long enough. Certainly these situations are minimized with the more experience you have, because you know what to look for, you know how to circumvent issues that arise and you have more confidence to take the wheel when it comes to managing a project. But even the most successful and established designers are bound to face client challenges. From time to time.

When you're in the midst of dealing with a problem like this, it can feel massive anxiety sets in imposter phenomenon rears its ugly head. And it can be easy to spiral out and feel like you just want to burn the barn down. In other words, give up throw in the towel, go get a j ob. I've personally dealt with my own fair share of challenges over the years. And I know what an icky feeling it can be. Sometimes it can feel like your dignity, your credibility, and your character are all being attacked. But I learned some things over the years that have helped me face in evitable challenges with more clarity and Grace while maintaining a healthy client relationship. And so we're going to address her question today. But I'm also going to share eight strategies that can help you with any sticky situation and hopefully help you bring a resolution without sacrificing your dignity or your income. So we're gonna get right to it. But before we do real quick, I just want to remind you that if you have a question that you want me to answer or advice you want me to address here on the podcast, send me your questions. I want to hear from you. You can submit your questions on our website at designers oasis.com forward slash dear Kate, that's designers oasis.com forward slash dear Kate, anything is on the table. I'm really excited to hear from you. Also, if today's episode resonates with you stick around to the end because I have roundup about five other podcast episodes that are somewhat related to this topic. So if this feels like something that maybe you're dealing with, or you want to be prepared for, not if but when a challenging client situation that comes up. I've got some more resources to help support you if you want to dig deeper. So I'll share those with you at the end. All right, let's get started. So first, I want to share our listeners a question Lisa says Dear Hey, I recently faced a challenge with a client and I feel like I totally botched my response. Long story short, I selected and then sourced wallpaper for my client for three rooms, the paper for two rooms ended up needing to be returned. One was our fault. Because of the measurements, we took it another because the client didn't like an aspect of the design that you really couldn't see on the sample. Now I'm left holding the bag with over $4,000 in credit to the wallpaper company, I even had to pay the client at the end of the job instead of the other way around. How can I handle this better in the future? Now I did have a chance to chat with Lisa. And I do understand that she wasn't the one that measured that this was the the installer who gave them the measurements. But there was still two roles left over. And so the client wasn't happy about that and wanted to return it. And I can clearly understand how this can be a sticky situation to to handle right we lean on our vendors to provide us with the best estimates that we can and there's always going to be some overages and it's better to have overages than to be under. And so it's a fine line. And I and I think she did her best. But you can understand too, from the clients perspective. You know, those things aren't cheap. And that's a lot. And it's a lot of overage. And so it truly was this a sticky situation.

So that was Lisa's question. And we're going to talk about these eight strategies and how you can apply it. And along the way, I'm also going to share with you some of my own stories of dealing with sticky situations with clients. Because let's face it, we're human over real. And that's, you know, what I like to talk about here on the podcast, I don't want to pretend to be some shiny, perfect interior designer that makes the right decision or never missteps. 100% of the time, it's absolutely not true. I've definitely definitely missed the mark. But here's the thing I learned from it, and I grow from it. And I always try to take accountability, which is one of the things we're going to talk about today. We're humans and a human world, and we're imperfect, and shit just happens, okay. And so what I'm hoping today is to give you some tools in your toolkit so that not if but when these things happen when they come up, you can feel grounded, you can feel like you have clarity of mind and the ability to handle these challenges with curiosity and with creativity. So what are some other things that might come up with clients that might become a challenge? Maybe you your client questions, your most recent invoice, why is this this much walk me through it, maybe your client wants you to do something that's outside of your contract, in this case, returning product, maybe your client misunderstood information that you thought was clear. And now you're having to re Explain yourself, that was actually a situation that I recently faced with some beloved clients of mine. These are clients that I have worked with for over 10 years, I've seen their children grow up, I have worked with them on every aspect of their home, on their main level on their basement and upstairs. And they have finally called me back to ask for their help with their kitchen, which we always knew the day would come. And so here we are, I have a wonderful relationship with them.

But something came up that challenged them, and they brought it up with me. And it was really, you know, in the moment, not a fun situation to have to work through. But we did it. And I truly feel like it's the past experiences that I've had that I've been able to grow and build on. That allowed me the ability to handle this situation with grace and with clarity and walk them through it in a way that regained their trust, and allowed us to move forward with confidence. So in this case, I'll just walk you through it because I think I can share some specifics about how I handled it in today's episode. But ultimately, what happened for us was, we were working with them on a kitchen project and the cabinetry, they already had a cabinetry company in mind. And I thought they would be good to work with but not great, I have another company that I thought would be better for them, possibly, but I wanted to give them information to compare so that they could compare apples to apples with the company that I was suggesting that they use. versus the other one, I never like to tell clients exactly who to go with. But instead I like to present them with the information and let them make a an informed decision. So I said, Hey, I think these guys would be great. I'm happy to work with them. I'd also like for you to consider this other option. And so what we did was we took the preliminary, just very, very, very basic drawing set that we had that had been provided to us and shared it with this other company and said can you use the information you have here to draw up a high level estimate for what it would be? I want to try to keep things as close as possible so that our client could compare apples to apples. And so they did. And what they came back to with US price wise, was exactly the same price as the other company. And so I shared this with the clients, and they made the choice to move forward with this company that I had brought to the table. Fast forward, we go through the concept design process. And in the concept design process, we of course, go through a deeper dive on a budgetary exercise just really accounts for everything that we want to do on the project, assign some numbers to it, that we think would be reasonable with keeping the clients quality expectations in mind. And then we present sort of a high level budget suggested budget to the client at the concept design phase, before we move into sourcing. So that's what we did. And within that concept design phase, of course, we took the preliminary drawings that we had, and we develop them just a little bit, move some things around, sort of, I wanted to improve the layout. And so we did that we improve some of the functionality of the cabinetry and, of course, picked our color and our finishes and that sort of thing. And with those changes, the price went up. And so I received an email from the client after we had prepared and shared everything with with them. And I received a client, excuse me an email from the client, where they were feeling frustrated that the price had gone up, you know, I explained to them that, you know, I'm happy to talk about this over the phone, let's plan to get on it on a phone call. But you know, the the design had changed. And the cost reflected those changes, the design improved, in fact, and I should have called out what was added or what was changed, that would account for those changes. And so ultimately, we ended up having a conversation and sort of walking through those decisions and those changes, and fundamentally improvements to the design, and how that was being reflected in the in the the new price. And so we were able to walk away with a better understanding. But it didn't happen.

With just a quick email, we had to have a conversation. It wasn't an easy conversation. But it was an honest conversation. And it was clear. So as we walk through some of the eight strategies for problem solving today, I'll sort of give you some examples of how I handled in this specific situation for myself. But all of this can apply to Lisa's question around, you know, facing challenging situations with a client whenever they're unhappy about something. Okay. All right. So the first strategy that I want to share with you is to buy yourself some time, it's very important that you don't immediately jump into problem solving mode, whenever something like this comes up. It's very helpful. If you can buy yourself some time to give yourself the opportunity to get grounded, and to calm any heightened emotions that might be coming up for you. In a stressful situation, your brain has a stress response, we call it the fight flight or freeze, you've probably heard of this stress response that triggers a physiological response to your body, this might show up as sweating, or your heart's beating faster or your throat tightens, or your stomach is in knots or your voice starts to shake. What's happening is the amygdala, which is the part of your brain that is responsible for survival is activated, and it is pumping a hormone into your bloodstream that we refer to as adrenaline.

Okay, when you're in a heightened state, it can be very difficult to communicate, it can be difficult to think rationally, and to maintain control of your emotions. So you want to give yourself some time to calm your brain so that you can have a clarity of mind right? Earlier, I mentioned that whenever we get an email or a phone call like this, it can feel like we are being personally attacked. And that's just your brain sort of doing its thing trying to keep you alive. But it's not necessary for your survival. This is just an evolutionary part of our brain. And we have to become grounded. So what I suggest is that to buy yourself some time you provide an immediate response to your client. So if they've emailed you, this would be a reply to the email. If they've called you, you might just say hey, listen, I understand that this is a real situation we need to address it. I am not able to, to sit with you on this right this second, can we plan to talk at the end of the day or tomorrow, I just need a minute to get myself together and then we can come back. So provided immediate response, acknowledging in the case of an email, acknowledge that you received the email and you got their message and schedule a time to talk within 24 hours, either by phone or in person. Do not get into a text or an email conversation when stakes are high. It's too easy to lose sort of the tone of voice when you are in an email. And there are no amount of emojis that can fix that a human voice is going to be much more effective than communicating these are working through a challenging situation in email, and definitely not in text. So and it's, it's hard to be mean to someone in person. So if you need to have an in person meeting, to help calm the situation, be prepared to do that as well, depending on what the situation is and what you think it calls for you what the situation calls for. So the first strategy is to buy yourself some time, even if it's just a couple of hours, okay. But ideally, you want to give yourself a little time, but no more than 24 hours, you don't want to leave something like this lingering. All right, strategy number two is to focus on the facts. Otherwise, you start to get into story and heightened emotion. So what are the facts here? And now? Right, that sounds like this. I'll use my story.

As an example, I understand that you're concerned about the cost of the cabinetry? Not I told you that the original pricing was an estimate and not a quote, do you see the difference? Right? The The important thing is to focus on the facts here and now and get out of the story. Right? When I, if I were to say, I told you that the original pricing was an estimate, not a quote, we're sort of getting into the story we're getting into, you know, how did we get here, you don't need to fully get into the details of how you got here. There'll be time for that later. Focus first on where we are here. Now, I understand that you're concerned about the cost of the cabinetry, right, that's a fact. And it's reflecting back to them that they're being heard. And they understand that you get what the situation is, when you focus on the facts are getting out of the emotion, part of it, while still staying in, it can help you to stay grounded. So focus on the facts here and now and avoid getting into the story of how we got here. Okay. Strategy number three is to activate empathy. Where are your clients come from, and I just want to mention this for a second, my business coach that I am working with, mentioned to me or said to me recently, you don't have to be an empathetic person to activate empathy. So even if you don't consider yourself an empathetic person, by nature, understand that you can still activate empathy in a situation, even if that's not your your natural, you know, go to place, right. And for some people, that is just a natural place to go and others, it's not so natural, but you can always activate it, I thought that was an important distinction that she shared with me. So how do you activate empathy, it starts by listening to them, and listening for clues about how they're feeling. And you need to be really honest with yourself and try to see where they're coming from, take yourself out of it. And really put yourself in the client's shoes. That's what, that's what empathy is all about is putting yourself in someone else's shoes and trying to see it from their perspective, whether or not you agree with them is not the point.

So, you know, in this case, activity, empathy, you know, might sound something like this, I understand your budget is real. And I want to help be a steward of your investment, right? That showing them that you understand that their money and their dollars, no matter, it doesn't matter. You're bound to have a budget conversation with clients, no matter what level of investment we're talking about. Budgets are real for millionaires and billionaires alike, as well, as you know, folks like you and me. So activating empathy is going to be really important. And to do that, you just need to listen for clues and reflect back to them what you're hearing, and just let them know that you understand, that's going to help lower the temperature of your clients and help them just take a breath like, okay, she's, she's here with me, she sees me, she understands where we're at. Okay? All right. Strategy number three, claim your intentions. So, intentions are going to help you be viewed as a human. And it's important that you find an opportunity to just quickly and honestly and openly share what your intentions are. Or were, you know, it was my intention to give you something to compare, so you could make an informed decision. And in my example, this is, you know, a real statement that I said to my client, and when you claim your intentions, it really can help your clients see where you are coming from and where you were hoping to take something and how you were hoping that that would help with the overall design, whatever the case may be. So think about your intentions and how you might be able to reflect that back to your clients in a conversation like this. Now, I want to be just take a second to mention, I'm talking about this in the in the context of dealing with a tricky client situation. But this could also be maybe you're dealing with a contractor and you and the contractor coming head to head on something, maybe it's a timeline, or maybe it's a budget, or maybe it's not something getting finished, or completed in the, with the level of craftsmanship that you were expecting or installed the way you were wanting. So you can take these strategies, and honestly use them in all aspects of your life. But you know, I'm talking about this from the context of dealing with your clients, and a sticky situation there. But just know that you can still take these principles and apply them with all sorts of situations and relationships. All right, strategy number five is to normalize don't catastrophize.

So sometimes clients simply don't understand what's normal in a design process. They can feel like their situation, what you're dealing with is unique to them. And it's because you've dropped the ball, right? Maybe something arrives damaged, or something's delayed or goes on backorder. It's really important when appropriate, right? To normalize situations, you can say things like, listen, these things happen all the time and projects and we're fully equipped to handle issues like this, when they arise. In the case of Lisa's question, you know, it's normal to have overages on a product because there's no way to perfectly estimate the exact number quantity that we would need. And I know from speaking to Lisa, personally that this specific room, there were lots of angles, and lots of moving parts, making it even more challenging to get that exact.

That exact quantity dialed in and really relaying to them. It's important that we have extra because if we don't and we end up short, then we're dealing with a different and even more difficult challenge, which is die lots of material where the the two material runs maybe don't match exactly in color, and that would also not make you happy. So normalizing some challenges when appropriate, rather than catastrophizing, you know, you don't want to heighten or make worse a situation by making it seem like you don't know that these things are normal or that that overages are normal or that damages, delays, backwaters, those sort of things aren't normal, just again, if appropriate, normalize don't catastrophize that can definitely help to lower the temperature. All right, moving on strategy number six is frame your clients best interest, put your clients best interest center stage, you want to relay to your clients that you only want what's best for them. Right? So here's an example. Your client wants you to expedite your design process to meet their deadline. Right? So they're saying you've told them your timeline, and they're asking, Can you get it done faster? Instead of saying, I'm sorry, I can't do that my kids are on spring break next week. And then I'm going to high point, even if that's true, your client doesn't care. You don't care how clean they are. They're like, I don't care when my deadline met. Here's another way to approach it that puts their best interest centerstage.

Here's another way of addressing that. I understand you're eager to move this project along, we have a tried and true process that we've used to successfully help hundreds of clients. In my experience, whenever we try to rush or abbreviate our design process, it doesn't go well. We want to approach your project with the same care and attention to detail clients have come to expect from us. And when we do, you can be confident that the end result is definitely going to exceed your expectations. And so for that reason, it's really important that you understand what's behind this timeline. And that this is the time we need in order to fulfill your project at the level of quality that that we've that we're that we expect out of ourselves. Okay. So do you see the difference? Right? Both are true. Yes, you have spring break? Yes, you have high point to go to. And those are things that are going to take time. And those things. Ideally, those events are ideally a factors that you've already considered when putting together your proposed timeline to your client. Right. Yet, you don't certainly you I think it's important that when you're delivering your project timelines that you can say, hey, just want to give you a heads up we've got I'm going to be out this week. But we've factored all of that in here's what our timeline looks like. So you can mention that. But if they're trying to get you to expedite your process to go step outside of your typical design process or to move things along quicker. You don't want those to be the reasons that you make for not being able to accommodate their request. You want to put their Best Interest, a front and center for your reason for not accommodating that request, because really, this is true. And you want to make that the center not your own personal reasons. So think about how you can frame a solution that is best for the client.

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All right, moving on, we are almost to the end, we've got number seven. Accountability is not the same as blame. Radical accountability is one of our core values. Even if I have found myself entangled with a toxic client, I was the one that let them in, I missed the signs or I ignored red flags. So I'm gonna give you a couple of examples from over the years that are true stories that I've had to address. So what I'm talking about here is radical accountability. So I had a client a number of years ago who had been a previous client of mine, I had worked with them twice before. And they came back to me wanting to do their upstairs area. And I having worked with them before I always knew that these clients were a little briskly, you're just a little rough around the edges in terms of how they communicated. And just really lacked any warmth that I typically see and expect in the kinds of clients that I want to work with. I knew this about them. And I ignored my gut check. Okay, so that was the first mistake that I made. I ignored my own intuition that said, you've worked with them before and you've made it work. But how did that go? Was it smooth? Was it effortless? It really wasn't it was a little tough. The previous go round, what makes you think this time it's going to be any different. But I wanted to please them, I wanted to help them. I they have previously given me a glowing review on this website that has brought me many, many, many future or additional clients. And I felt in a sense, obligated or beholden to them to not turn them down.

So that was number one. And then the other thing that I did wrong was because I had worked with them. And I was familiar with their space, they actually just wanted to do their primary suite. So I had been in their house, I knew the space, I generally knew what I was dealing with. And I knew their style. And I kind of knew their budget expectations. And so I settled on a phone call a discovery call and said, You know, honestly, I think we can skip the consultation. I don't feel the need to do that, given our previous experience. And that was a mistake. Because ultimately what happened in this case was not doing the consultation. left a gap in knowledge for me. I had they gave me a budget, right? And they told me Well, we want to redo our master or primary suite. And off the cuff, that information seemed to line up. But what I didn't understand was everything that they wanted to spend with that money and it was quite a bit. And so it was too late. We were already in the design process. And all of a sudden they're saying, well, here's our list and here's our budget, guess what, the two were not in alignment. Had I stuck with my process. I would have had the opportunity in the consultation to learn more and understand. Well, this all sounds good at first and this is a lot of money but it's going to go really fast given everything that you want to do. And I missed that opportunity because I stepped outside of my typical design process. Okay, so accountability. Yes. They're bristly. Yes, the way they handled it was very difficult, and really challenged me and my integrity in a way that was very hurtful. And I ignored my intuition. I left them in the door, knowing that previous experiences were always a little iffy. And I missed the opportunity to learn more, because I skipped the consultation. So at the end of the day, radical accountability is going to be really important to getting yourself unstuck. Okay, so that was one example, I'm going to give you another example. I had a project where we were at the tail end of a massive, massive, massive project. And it was spring, and the clients were finally like, hey, we didn't have the money to do the outdoor furnishings, which is an entire wraparound porch, I think it was like $60,000 worth of outdoor furniture, we were ready to go ahead and pull the trigger on that we had sourced and specified that aspect of the project months prior. And they just simply were at capacity budget wise to pull the trigger at the moment. And so they wanted to push it off. And so we said, Yes, we're happy to do that. And this was a remote project, they wanted to bypass the receiver, we had used a receiver in the initial phase one of the project. And it was very expensive, because the location of the project was remote and very far from the receiving company. But it was essential. This was a second weekend home for these clients. So it wasn't their primary residence, which means there's nobody that lives there. There's nobody to receive product of materials, furniture, that sort of thing. So when they asked to bypass the receiver, for for budgetary reasons, I went ahead and said, Yeah, so I said, sure I get it, that's fine. We can schedule the freight deliveries, and everything else we could have sent to your home, your your primary residence that you can then eat and bring out yourselves. And at first glance, it seemed like it was a viable solution. However, had I taken just a little more time to really think about the logistics and how this would play out. It would have been really clear to me that there was a lot of potential for this to go wrong. And guess what happened? It did? It certainly did the the scheduling of the deliveries to a remote location with clients that don't live there, full time became an utter nightmare. And the clients guess who they were pissed at? Not the delivery company, not the vendor. They were pissed at us, right? And I'm like, Well, wait a second, you're the one that wanted to bypass the receiver. And that's what I wanted to say to them. But how do you think that would have gone over? Not well, at all. And so when I was having that difficult conversation with the client, instead of saying, Look, I was just doing what you asked me to do. That's not taking accountability. Accountability looks like, Hey, I understand that you asked to have this delivered, but it's professional. It was my responsibility. I should have thought about this more. And I should have thought about how this could play out. And if I had, I would have realized this had a lot of potential to really drag things out and become a logistical nightmare. And in retrospect, I see that that was a missed opportunity. That's what accountability looks like. How do you think put yourself in the shoes of the client? How do you think that response is received? Versus I did what you asked me to do, which let's be honest, is what I wanted to say because it was true, right? It was true. But that's not taking ownership. That's not taking accountability. But accountability is not the same as blame, right? It's not my fault that the the the shipping and freight company was an utter nightmare to work with. Right? That's on them. But I'm in this role to help smooth things over. Okay. So psychologically, it lowers the temperature of your clients when you when they hear you take accountability. It's not the same as blame, but it does open space to move into creative problem solving. Okay? It just says, okay, you know what? She heard me. She understands where I'm coming from. She's taking accountability. She's not taking the blame. She's taking accountability. And oftentimes, not everyone has a little bit of shared accountability, right? But it can help them sort of take a beat and say okay, now we can move into problem solving mode. Okay, So, take ownership when and if you can. And even if it's just to say, Hey, I learned something here today. That's what I said in my recent conversation with my clients related to the cabinetry budget, I said, Hey, listen, I learned something here today, I learned that I can't take for granted that when I'm using language that I'm familiar with, that maybe some of this terminology needs to be elaborated or explained to my clients in this case.

The the nuance of the difference between an estimate and a quote, you know, an estimate for the cabinet is not the same as a quote or proposal, right. And I took for granted that that's something that everybody knows. And I really, and I'm, and I'm really learning, you know, how important that is. That meant so much to them to hear me say that. Alright, so remember, accountability, take radical accountability. And remember, it's not the same as taking the blame for what's going on. Okay. All right, my friends, we're moving on to the last strategy, which is flexibility is your friend. All right? When it comes to problem solving, being overly rigid will diminish your clients trust in you. I want you when you're problem solving, to look for ways to be flexible, and agile without compromising your dignity or your income? Can you come up with payment terms? Can you step outside of your no returns policy? Can you expedite just one aspect of your process in order to help accommodate a timeline or move things along to help your client out in a way that's not going to blow up the whole system, right? I am an I'm a huge advocate to sticking to your process, but not in a way that it's so rigid, that it becomes you become difficult to work with. One of the things I hear all the time when I get testimonials from a client is the ease of working with me, but I make it easy to for clients to work with me. And that is something they appreciate. And that is because of flexibility. And agility is so important to us. So being agile and flexible can help you develop more creative solutions that are that can help you to re establish trust in your client relationships so that you can all move on. Alright, my friends. One last thing, before we wrap up, I want to just mention this, before having a difficult call, or meeting with a client or contractor whoever the case may be, I want you to do some work to get your body and your mind relaxed and focused. Okay, one of the easiest things you can do is just go over to YouTube. And search grounding exercises. There's breathwork, there's breathing, tapping, balancing, shaking, these are all somatic exercises that can help reduce anxiety, and help bring calm and clarity before going into a difficult conversation. You can do the same kind of exercises if you're going into a new client consultation, and maybe you've got some jitters or you've got a little bit of nerves, especially if you're just starting out. But you're even not you know, or you're going into a presentation it can be very, sometimes we get worked up in our body. And I want to really encourage you to do some grounding exercises to help you feel calm and collected and clear of mind because what that's going to do is it's going to help you be perceived as a confident, professional. Okay, even if you've got a little nerves on the inside, it's totally normal. But you can do some body work and some breath work to help yourself feel grounded. So that whatever it is, whether it's a difficult conversation, a presentation, a new client consultation, a new client phone call, you can feel relaxed and confident. All right.

So running into challenges is an inevitable part of running an interior design business. It's just the truth. It can be really hard not to take things personally, or feel like your character or your integrity is being challenged. And honestly, sometimes it will be it's just the truth, but you have to separate yourself from the claim versus your intention. Use these strategies. Anytime you're up against a challenging situation that requires delicate communications and try to steer the ship in the right direction. Most of the time, these will feel like speed bumps in the rearview mirror. I'm going to be honest, though, occasionally, you may realize that a project or client doesn't have room to move forward. And that's okay. If you employ these strategies, you can feel good that you did the best you could to come up with a viable solution that would work and if you have clients that are simply inflexible, it's better to establish it now and go ahead and cut those ties instead of trying to force something that will never it get easier. But I really think that that is rare. It's, you know, something that you can avoid altogether. Most of the time if you employ these strategies most of the time, have you handled them correctly, and with delicate words unkindly and confidently and with poise, you can turn any situation around and even deepen and further your relationship with your clients who really trust you and really start to see you as an asset to their team. And that's what I want the most for you most of all. Alright, so that's all we have. But before we go, I just want to share with you a couple of episodes. If this is an important topic for you, and you want to explore some more, I've got a handful of episodes that I want to share with you, you can check the show notes to get links to all of these. The first is episode number 30. How to get out of the perfectionist trap. Oftentimes, when dealing with situations like this, we think that we have to be perfect to come up with a solution. And that's just simply not true. So I think getting out of this perfectionist, headspace is really important. So that's episode number 30. Episode number 11. Managing client expectations during renovations, great one, episode number 34. You'll probably hear some of these same stories from from today's episode, but five business lessons I learned the hard way. Episode number 32. Seven red flags you shouldn't ignore. And episode number 46 called you have time with Jenny fertile. I really love this episode because she shares some of those somatic exercises that you can do to help you get grounded. And Ginny is a trauma informed yoga instructor. And she shares some very specific body movements that can help you get get your body relaxed and settled before going into a conversation like this. All right, my friend. And that's all I have for you today. I hope that you have found this to be an inspiring and helpful podcast episode. If you have I would love if you would hop in to your podcast player, give us a five star review. If you have even another second. Go ahead and give us a quick testimonial. Let us know what you think we It really means a lot to us and helps us be able to continue to create more content like this and continue to serve you. And I really appreciate you doing that for us today. All right, I will be back next week with another episode. Bye for now. Hey, friend, thank you so much for letting me spend a part of this day with you. I'm so passionate about helping designers like you. And I believe in a rising tide that when one of us does well, we all do better. So if you share this attitude of abundance with me, I want you to do just one little thing. Please share this episode with someone using might love it. And if you're feeling extra generous today, go ahead and take just 30 seconds to open your podcast app and leave us a five star rating and review. It's free for you to do and it helps me to be able to keep making more episodes and resources for you. However you choose to help please No, I appreciate you so very much. Thank you, my friend. Have a wonderful rest of your day. I'll see you soon.