EP #19 | 3 Things your Brand Needs to Communicate (well) with Carly Teigeler
Welcome to the Designers Oasis podcast. I'm your host, Kate Bendewald, interior designer, mama and CEO of a thriving interior design business, built on authentic word of mouth referrals. It wasn't that long ago that I stepped away from my corporate architecture job to build my own dream, one that would allow me more time with the people that I love, the ability to serve my clients at the highest level, and to make a great living. It wasn't always easy, and I've made my share of mistakes along the way. Fast forward to today, and I've learned a thing or two. This podcast is for you - the inspired, creative, ambitious, and let's admit it, occasionally overwhelmed interior designer who shares this dream of transforming lives by transforming homes. Join me and my guests each week as we walk through practical ways to build an interior design business you love, and helps you transform your clients' lives. You can do this.
My guest today is Carly Teigeler, owner and lead designer of schematic design co a brand and a web design studio that specializes in human centered design. In my interview today, I asked her about what human centered design is and how we can employ that throughout design. But we also cover some other really exciting topics as it relates to branding. Like the three things Carly says your brand needs to communicate well, in order to position yourself in the market. She also describes the palette of tools way beyond a logo that your brand needs. And finally, Carly understands that designers are in different seasons. And some brands may need a full custom design. But other times it may need just a little glow up. So today she shares some simple questions you can ask yourself to decide if a brand overhaul or a mini makeover is the right next step. I think you're going to love the energy that Carly brings along with her beautifully simple way of sharing her expertise. Here's Carly. Hey, good morning, Carly. How are you?
Carly Teigeler
Hi, I'm doing great. How are you doing?
Kate Bendewald
I'm doing well. I am so grateful to be here with you today. So for those folks listening today, our guest is Carly Teigeler , the owner and lead designer of schematic design co a full service brand and web design studio. And I say full service. But you also have some other services, which we'll talk about here in a little bit. But thank you so much for coming today. So I have worked personally with Carly. And I just have to say I, I absolutely loved my process of working with you. You have this just incredible enthusiasm and mag and you're sort of magnetic and I just felt like I was in good hands. And in everything that we talked about when we work together. I just knew I was like I want to get you in front of some other interior designers. Because I I think that there's a lot of things that you believe about design and branding and websites that, to me, I think is refreshing from a lot of the typical advice that we hear. And so I wanted to come bring you on and talk about that. So welcome.
Carly Teigeler
Thank you so much. I'm so excited to be here and to get to chat.
Kate Bendewald
Yeah, awesome. So Carly, one thing, that conversation I'm obsessed with, I can literally have this conversation with people 24 hours a day. I love to hear about people's journeys and how they got to where they are their stories. And I don't know much about your backstory and how you got into this role of running this company. This this design and branding company. Have you always done graphic design?
Carly Teigeler
No. So I've been doing I've been doing branding and web design for about six years now. About four years full time, four and a half. But I actually thank you my train He is actually I went to school for architecture, and dance. That's what my degree is in dance.
Kate Bendewald
We are kindred spirits, my friend.
Carly Teigeler
I know. I loved it. But yeah, and I loved I loved the study of both did a bunch of internships found that I just wasn't loving the practice of architecture the way I thought I would. But during my time in school, I did some lighting design through theater, through the dancing degree, and ended up getting a job in lighting design out of school segwayed from that into working for a music video production company, which was a lot of fun, and then ended up moving away from when you say,
Kate Bendewald
production, like, like the kind we would see on MTV, right? And I'm maybe asking myself, No, yeah,
Carly Teigeler
you're exactly right. Yeah, I got to work on some really cool stuff. My first day at that job, they threw me into a, b, roll some B roll shots for a Dave Matthews video, it was a weird job, for fun, you know,
Kate Bendewald
class and you were doing lighting design
Carly Teigeler
I was doing, it was a mix of they just kind of threw me in there. So I was doing some admin work, I was doing some animation, actually fair amount of Animation, Animation, and then just graphic design for random things just because I knew the software. But it was just kind of a fun job to get to try out a lot of different things, a little bit of sound design, too. And then from there, I moved, I wanted something that was a little more stable and a little more visually oriented. So I took a job with an event design company, because I had rendering school skills from working in architecture. And I did a bunch of staging design there. And along the way,
Kate Bendewald
what a staging design for So yeah, we're what kind of events are we talking about?
Carly Teigeler
Yeah, so they were kind of a full spectrum events company. So we did maybe like one or two weddings a year. But primarily they did corporate conferences, and like TEDx events. So I was designing staging displays with like custom fabric treatments and big led walls, and also designing motion graphics for that kind of display. It was a lot of fun. And along the way, the company I was with this rather small and they were like you're under 30, you can do social media, right. So they threw me into doing all of their marketing work as well. And along the way, on the side, I was just trying out different elements, I had started to kind of feel into the graphic design world started doing wedding invitations for folks on the side doing the odd logo for a family friend, the website, and just really fell in love with working with small business owners. Because I got to be so involved in the project and so close with the client. And I really got to see the impact of the work I was doing and how it was transforming their businesses and ultimately, their day to day so. So I just fell in love with that and made myself a six month plan and what ended up being like a year and a half plan before I left the job, but but just decided to roll with it. And it's been a blast.
Kate Bendewald
Oh my gosh, I'm in awe of the skill sets that you have off, I was like, literally anything. Yeah, and I can see how as creative as that job may have been with the events company. And if you're like me in any way you I have always appreciated having being up close with my clients. And I didn't have that when I was doing corporate architecture. either. I was doing interior design at an architecture firm, the clients just were so far away, and I just didn't have a connection with them the way that I did with residential clients. So that's partially why I made the switch. But I can see how for you your love for business, how this sort of helps marry that along with your skills for visual and also strategy because you clearly have this very strategic mind. Beautifully paired with the creative side. So I love hearing I love hearing people's stories, and that is definitely that does not disappoint. So that was about 646 years ago, you said And now tell us a little bit about so one of the things I'm just going to bring this up is that you say on your website that you do human centered branding and web design. Tell me what that means to you human centered branding.
Carly Teigeler
Absolutely. So I realized a few years into being in this field that my approach was a little bit more centered around the end users experience than many other designers were sort of talking about or teaching at the time. And I think some of that comes from the architectural background, you know, we're taught to really, physically note or step into the space that our clients and the end users are going to inhabit and think about every scale of touchpoint that they're going to hit. And really get into that mindset, as we are designing and designing around that as opposed to designing something that we like, and then thinking about how folks can shift their behavior to fit it. So. So that's what I mean, when I say human centered is just that it's really focused on the experiential aspect of it.
Kate Bendewald
Fascinating that makes so much sense. I appreciate the metaphor is that can you give me an example of like, is there a specific feature of a website that you would could give as an example of this human centered approach?
Carly Teigeler
Yeah, yeah, um, websites are so interesting, because you have kind of your macro interactions and your micro interactions with them, you have the really obvious interactions that you're taking with a website, like, you know, going from one page to the next, clicking buttons, that kind of thing, where you're really conscious of how you're interacting with the site. And then you also have micro interactions, like how your eye moves throughout content on a page, and how it might jump from one thing to the next and what it might catch and what it might skip. So there's a lot of subtle moments, especially with websites, because we consume them so quickly. And our eyes are moving so quickly through them. It's different than how we interact with physical media or like paper. So so there are so many tiny moments that we have to keep in mind down to, you know, the radius of a corner on an image that's going to affect how someone takes in that image. So Oh, yeah, it's interesting.
Kate Bendewald
Like, that is so fascinating. And I guess I sort of knew these things, in theory, but hearing you talk, how nuanced these design decisions can be. For a website is really interesting. I could probably talk and hear hear you talk about that for hours. But I want to I want to move on, because it related to this. There's something that I read that you, you said about how you guys work. And I wanted to see if we could touch on that a bit more. You say our approach to design isn't just pretty. It's designed to make your specialness, unique touchpoints and core value proposition stand out so that you can grow playfully, professionally and with authority. I love that. There's a lot there. But I want to excuse me specifically hone in on this word, playfully, and professionally, because I feel like I maybe read the word play in another place on your website. So this idea of playfulness kind of stands out to me in your brand. Is Is that intentional? And if so can you talk to me a little bit more about where that came from?
Carly Teigeler
Oh, absolutely. It's highly digital. That's a word I use a lot. And in some ways, it refers to my process and the way I like to work through and iterate things, but but it also applies to the balance that a lot of clients of mine are searching for when they come to me for branding design. A lot of business owners these days, they want to appear professional and appeal to an elevated audience and show that use their branding to show that they have chops, right. They also want and need their personality to come through it needs to appear to be very organically of them in a way. So a lot of times where that intersection happens is somewhere on a scale between professional and playful. And I say playful, because a lot of times those personal elements that are so so incredible for us to bring through with a brand is that sense of fun and life and life giving and the things that really light business owners up about what they do. Those are the things that very often we bring into their branding, and that really helps folks connect with them on a deeper level. So a lot of times we do get into a realm where we add elements of playfulness to an otherwise you know, perhaps more traditional feeling brands so that's kind of our sweet spot is helping folks find that perfect middle ground for them.
Kate Bendewald
I'm loving this because I, I know that for me personally, and I would imagine a lot of interior designers listening to this would, I was nodding my head when you were talking because as an interior designer, we are, we need to be taken seriously. Number one, and I think that there's a lot, I think it's gotten better. But I think that there has historically been this idea of like, you know, architecture is this real thing. And interior designers, there was a term, it was a horrible term called interior desiccators. That, you know, was a terrible, you know, that, like, we just fought pillows, or whatever, and that the technical aspects of what we do, and the logic of how we think about a project and the seriousness of putting the right materials in the right application in the right place, and being trusted with those decisions. I mean, in in commercial, you know, life, life safety and wellness and fire prevention is of utmost importance in public spaces. And you really have to know all the codes, you know, so much more is involved to with commercial. So think that there is this desire from interior designers to want to be perceived as professional and we should write We are professional, absolutely. But not at the sake of being an authentic, and I love hearing what you just said, because it sounds like you're giving permission to show up professionally, but also be able to bring in whatever aspect it is about you that might be whether it's playful, or I'm spacing on other adjectives, but you know, something that might be bringing a little bit of tension alongside this professional aspect.
Carly Teigeler
Absolutely, yeah, for sure. It's, um, that's always that's always the tricky balance with creative service professionals of all types. And with designers, because there's a reason they call it design and not art, there's so much more technical. Li there's so just so much more that goes into it than any anyone outside of the industry realizes. So I'm totally about that. But the, the real work of branding is always stepping more into who you are, and not leaning out into another identity that we think is going to help folks perceive us better, but leaning further into who we are. And that's really what's going to speak to an audience and start to draw them in and get that magnetic energy going.
Kate Bendewald
Right. And not just any audience, like the kind of people that you want to attract, because you're showing up authentically and who doesn't want to show up authentically. You know, of course, if you're a total weirdo, be a weirdo. Right, like, shouting from the rooftop. Hello, um, yeah. You know, if you've got if you've got if you're a little bit woowoo let that shine, you know, if if you've got a little hippie dippie side to you, like, whatever it might be. I love this idea of letting that show up alongside professionalism. I guess for me, I have put so much attention on that aspect of it simply in the about page, I want to think about how you how you show up or how I show up as a person, you know, every other page, I mean, okay, now we're gonna get into some stuff. But we, I think we all know by now the about page isn't about you. It's about how you help people. So I do like to I've always focused on infusing who I am as a person somewhere in that page, but it sounds like that can show up kind of throughout all of your branding collateral website. And that's kind of your zone of genius.
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I want to ask you about this, you say, I'm going to preface this with, I'm pretty certain that most of our listeners are savvy enough to know that a brand is more than a logo. And yet, sometimes when we start to talk about what those other aspects are, it can get a little abstract, perhaps. So can you talk about you call them, you say you need more tools in your palette than just a logo. So talk to us about what those tools
Carly Teigeler
are? Absolutely. So there are your sort of design tools that you need beyond your logo. And then there are also just other elements of your brand. A lot of times when folks talk about branding, what they're really talking about is the visual side of branding. But there's so much more to it, there's the vocal side, or the written side, that comes down to your copy, there. And then there's the experiential side, which encompasses all of it. But I always say that, you know, even as a designer, no one's gonna hire me just because I have a cool logo myself. But they might if the quality of their visual experience, as they read through my website, or look through my social media posts, what have you matches the quality of what I have to offer, it needs to affirm what they're otherwise finding or hoping to be true about me. And the quality of that visual experience has to do with so much more than my logo, of course, you know, they're going to be seeing a lot more of my supporting fonts, my chosen brand, color palettes, the little sub marks and illustrative accents, I tie and they're gonna be seeing a lot more of that than they are of my logo. And we never see any one of these elements in a vacuum, you know, any one of your graphic elements of your branding is always going to be surrounded by the others. So we really have to be conscious of them all and how they all work together and provide a sense of balance among each other. And we can either ignore those things and let them be afterthoughts. And not have much control over how it reads as a system. Or we can be intentional about each of them. And that's when we really are able to create a thoughtful and strategic experience for our target audience. So it's not just thinking about one of those elements on its own, it's thinking about how it all plays together. Like, for example, when we're talking about finding that balance between professional and playful, very often. And I see this a lot with newer brands, who maybe foresee some shifts coming up in future, whether they their audience might shift their offers might shift, very often, what we'll end up doing is keeping their core brand assets like their logo, their font set that sort of thing, a little on the simpler side, and a little bit more tailored, and a little bit more upscale, we'll use those tertiary features like their sub marks, their spot illustrations, their brand photography, things that are easier to change in and out to add a little bit more life and a little bit more playfulness, and just a little a little more. And together, it provides a great balance for them for right now. But we're being strategic about what we may, what's going to be easier to potentially shift in the future. You know, just thinking about it all as a cohesive system that all works together to give us one sort of experiential feel, is really going to be your most intentional way of your most strategic way of getting a specific outcome from your visual branding.
Kate Bendewald
Oh, my gosh, I I want to go back to everything you just because there's so much good stuff there. But I think the thing that jumps out to me the most is you're talking about recognizing the nuances right of of how all of these elements intermingle and future pacing, right. So thinking about how this is going to evolve as you as a business owner evolve in your services in your clientele, and doing it at the right pace, right. And that's also just really infusing authenticity into every little element to that may not be conscious to the viewer. But it does, as you mentioned, sort of it has this subconscious effect that says, you know, oh, this brand is you know, you use better words than I could you know, to describe how you know how a brand is perceived, and that the words and the experience that go alongside these visual elements have to be cohesive have to be in alignment? Yeah, I mean, I have, I have to tell you, I have certainly experienced going to somebody's website, I'm not not an interior designer, but maybe they're a service provider of some kind. And finding just a stunning website, right, like, they have clearly invested in a beautiful website. But beyond that, the experience of contacting them the experience of communicating with them, was total rubbish. And, and it very much felt not in alignment as like, okay, so they, they literally paid somebody to make a website. And that's the extent that they thought about it. Right, and it left a terrible taste in my mouth. So I, this totally resonates. And I'm thinking of designers. So, you know, if you are in the process of either rebranding, or maybe you're launching your, your business, and you want to get off on the right foot, and you're thinking of all of the different ways that your branding shows up through experience, through words through the visuals. What I'm hearing is, it's not enough just to do this aspect of it, but you really need to have your, you know, your communications buttoned up and your process and, you know, the way that you talk about what it is that you do and who you're who you're seeking to work with all kind of needs to be. It's a system, right? I love that.
Carly Teigeler
Oh, yeah. Yes, yes. And being cohesive about all of it is so great. And it's also helpful, I think, especially when you're starting out, and you're sort of working through some of those things, not all at the same time, you know, a lot of us don't start businesses and hire a designer and a copywriter, and a photographer all in one go. It's okay to start with somewhere, and tweak elements as you go. You know, you may realize after working with a certain website for a while that your copy is feeling a little bit off, or maybe, maybe you want to add a certain feel or increase a tone. So maybe I've been working with a website for a while. And I'm finding that the inquiries I'm getting are from folks who don't have say, the the budget that I might want, so I realized I needed something to feel more elevated, you can start small, if that's what's available to you. And especially if you're DIY and that sort of thing, you can start small tweak your copy or tweak your imagery or tweak, you know, your font choices, start with one thing and see how that affects the balance of it all, because you may not need to overhaul everything.
Kate Bendewald
I couldn't agree more. In fact, I remember when I when we moved to Texas, you know, I was going through a bit of a rebuilding phase myself, because I had just experienced experienced a ton of burnout. And, you know, I it certainly wasn't a time for me to do this big brand overhaul. I knew that's not what I wanted. But I knew that I had to tweak the language on at least my homepage, and I ended up doing it throughout. But I shifted a lot of my language, everything else stayed the same. The only thing that changed were some of my words, that really added I wanted to add an elevated experience that people knew like this is this is a luxury high end experience. And be prepared, you know, for that price point. And it worked. You know, eventually I went and did get some help. This is obviously before I knew you, but you know, kind of shifting the whole thing. But just that one shift alone made such a big difference. So I appreciate the validation that you just provided. Um, you say that there are three things that your brand needs to communicate to position you well in your market, can you share what those three things are?
Carly Teigeler
Totally, I call it the big three. And I always say that and it sounds simple enough. But if you haven't actually written out your thoughts on these three elements before it's a transformative exercise for everyone I've ever had do it. But your branding needs to tell a story about you, your audience and where you stand in your industry or market. So you the you elements. It needs to communicate who you are your mission, your values, what lights you up about what you do, but also the tone that you embody. It's really worth thinking about the tone of voice that you have when you speak with your clients and how can you bring that into into your branding. The you element is who you serve. So you obviously want your branding to be reflective of who your target audiences and you want to be called interests, what appeals to them visually. But you also want to speak to the problems that you solve for them, you want your branding to respond to the tangible and emotional problems that they come to you with. So for example, if you know that your ideal client tends to come to you from a vulnerable place, you may want to tailor your branding to feel warm or welcoming or personable to some degree, to account for that, to speak to that person and say, this is a safe space for you from the get go. And then where you stand in your industry or market, you, you really want your branding to speak to what sets you apart. And some folks will use their branding to set them apart. But for a lot of us, there's a there's a reason why we got into the business that we're at. And usually part of that reason has to do with the gap we saw in the market. So what was that? What is different about your process? Your product? And how can you tie that into your visual branding, as well. So those are kind of the three big elements your branding wants to touch on, in order to tell a well rounded story that's going to connect with the audience you want to connect with.
Kate Bendewald
That makes so much sense. And you just put it together so beautifully. So it's you, your audience and your position in the marketplace. Can you also give us some examples of your place and you're placed in them in your market? So and you don't have to use interior design as an example, but maybe some past clients that you've had, like, how, what are some examples of how you might differentiate? And this is you're basically we're talking about your unique selling proposition or?
Carly Teigeler
Yeah, absolutely. Your unique spin. Yeah, your factor, if you will.
Kate Bendewald
I know that's really hard for people to hone in on. So I think some examples are are helpful.
Carly Teigeler
Absolutely, yeah, it takes time. And sometimes it takes some market research. I can speak to this myself, I did, I went through a rebrand of my own last year after working under the same branding for gosh, I don't know, five years or something that I cooked up on my mom's living room floor. And I realized that I needed a shift because again, I wasn't appealing to the audience that I wanted to. And I, when I started out, I didn't know what made me unique. I knew that I had an approach that wasn't necessarily being talked about a lot, but I didn't know how to share that. So I did some market research over the last couple of years to see what element of my process was most interesting to folks. And honestly, I did this through polling and stories mostly like on Instagram. And found that folks really understood my process better when I related it back to thinking about architecture and thinking about how in architecture, we do touch on different scales. And we have so much context that we have to bring into our work and that clicked for people. So I knew when I came to do when it came time to do my rebranding that my unique spin was really my process. And I tie that into my branding by tying in subtle architectural hints, my my logo and a bunch of my sub marks have you know, dotted or graphed like lines. I use a graphic motif a lot that has sort of an a drafting page outline to it, that sort of thing. So that's kind of an obvious example, but
Kate Bendewald
to your website, and I now I'm recalling. Oh, yes, I did see those. And that makes so much sense now that I know your story for God.
Carly Teigeler
No, yeah, yeah, totally. Let me think of another example. So I recently worked last year with a veterinarian's office. And they are out in crochet and Virginia and their clientele tends to be folks with exotic pets who are looking for more of a hands on veterinarian experience, not your typical, you know, cats and dogs, and we just treat them when we're sick. They want you know, Reiki for their animals. And that kind of Reiki for their Paris, of course, who doesn't? So, I know. So they're, they're sort of special sauce. Their it factor was their hands on experience. And so looking at their market, though, there were a lot of other veterinarians in their area who branded themselves as warm and fuzzy and welcoming. And you know, we're just the sweetest place to take your animals. So we took a different approach. And we modeled the branding just a little bit after a high end skincare brand. Oh, yeah, so lots of italicized Serif fonts, a very elegant greens and pale blue spaced palette that really serve to visually set them apart. from other brands in their market, but also spoke to kind of a high end experience that sort of was, you know, ran a little bit under the radar in a way that folks might not expect from a veterinarian's office.
Kate Bendewald
Oh my gosh, I'm assuming that's in your portfolio on your website, I'm gonna have to go check this sounds like just from the colors alone, like it would beautifully tie in with this idea of exotic animals. very naturally. Oh, my gosh, that is so fun. I, I, now I want to go check it out. Thank you for helping explain that so beautifully, how you can find this unique aspect of a company, whether it's a service or a product, are there other unique aspects besides service and process? I guess would be one. But then how you tie that in visually up. So you would be looking for unique aspects that are maybe process oriented. What else? Yeah,
Carly Teigeler
they can be process oriented, they can be related to your deliverable, which is very often the case for creative professionals. Especially I find that a lot of creative professionals are sort of coming into their markets as like very firmly either in a specialist bucket. So they have a very clear thing that they do, and they do it so well, or they're generalists, where their focus is we can tailor this solution to whatever your needs are. And it's about the end user. And both of those approaches have a visual connotation, you know, the end product is something that could be tied into your visual branding. So there's process there's deliverable oriented, trying to think of other examples.
Kate Bendewald
But experience is that different than process? Um,
Carly Teigeler
I suppose it depends on your field, because for most, for most small businesses, I think the process involves the client to some degree. So that is their experience. But you could differentiate them, in some cases, for sure, yeah. So yeah, how you deliver your client experience could definitely be something that sets you apart in your industry.
Kate Bendewald
I love that. And then for you to like thinking about your history, as an in architecture. And I know inside the designers always this membership, we have a really colorful group of designers that come from so many backgrounds, I just naming a few off the top of my head, a civil engineer, an FBI, private investigator, teachers. Oh, cool. Gosh, there's, there's financial planners. I know there's more. Those are just the ones that come up the top of my head, but whenever we are talking about, you know, what, what do you bring to your clients into this experience? That's different. Because so many of our members there, this is second career, if not third career, they usually have some sort of previous career. And it's not always obvious at first, what that experience could bring to the table when it comes to interior design. But I will tell you, when I was talking to the lady who had been an investigator for the FBI, what we uncovered was that, Oh, I'm getting goose bumps. She actually has this uncanny ability to ask really pointed questions that get down to the heart of, you know, people's pain points, or, you know, what is it that they're experiencing? And she hasn't, yeah, make ability to ask questions in a way that reveals and uncovers things that your typical questions might not. So that was a huge aha moment for her. And so, you know, whenever I'm talking to somebody that's feeling stuck on trying to figure out what their unique selling proposition is, a lot of times it does come to process, but it can also be like, what is their past experience? bring to the table?
Carly Teigeler
Absolutely. Yeah. That's incredible. Yeah, it's always amazing when we can find elements of our story that weave together with what our clients are looking for now. Yeah, that's such that's that's some special sauce right there.
Kate Bendewald
That's the magic. That's the magic. I want to talk I have a couple more questions for you. So you recognize that hiring a brand designer it is some of it comes down to timing and when is it the right time to do it? So what would you say to somebody who's asking them selves, you know, is this the right time for me to hire someone with? Designing my brand?
Carly Teigeler
Absolutely, yeah, I am kind of a realist about this. And I'm, I'm, I'm very
Kate Bendewald
get somebody else. Let's hear it, mama. I'm a practical chick.
Carly Teigeler
And I am all about that ROI. Yeah, and there are definitely times when it totally makes sense to hire a brand designer. And that's just what's gonna get you to the next step. And there are times when it makes sense to wait and find a good placeholder. So I have a series of questions that are often asks asked folks or a series of things that I think are helpful to think about when you're trying to decide. So the times when it might be really beneficial to you to hire a branding designer, are when you know that you're ready for a brand identity that communicates the level of expertise that you're bringing to the table. Very often we hit this point when we've undergone some new training, or we've just been doing what we've been doing long enough. And we're starting to really get proof of the transformation we're providing for our clients or our customers. And we're just like, You know what, we need to level up. This also comes sometimes when you're ready for higher end clients with bigger budgets. Fact of the matter is bigger budget, clients are going to be looking for more trust from you from the get go. And branding is a really important tool and helping you do that. Other signs that you're ready to hire a brand designer, or if you're self conscious to send people to your site. And so you try not to, or you're self conscious to hand them your business card, and you're holding back if you're playing small because your branding doesn't feel right to you, it's time to make some sort of change, for sure. Because at that point, it's it's hurting you. Other scenarios where it's a good time to hire a brand designer are when your audience has shifted. And sometimes this happens in subtle ways over time, sometimes it happens in quick, really, really visible ways. But if you have a new audience you need to market to and you need help figuring out how to reach them, a branding designer is going to be your best friend. So those are some some telltale signs that it's time to get some help to some degree. Signs that it might be a good idea to wait or to hold or to find another solution are when you're just starting out. And you maybe aren't sure who you are as a business or a brand yet, or you don't know your target audience very well. And some businesses not to say that starting out and not knowing those things are equivocal because a lot of us start businesses with some experience under our belt, we know what we're going for. But if you are in that place, it probably return on investment wise is probably going to serve you to hold until you can answer some of those questions with more clarity before you go for a full on custom brand design experience. Of course, you could go into that process with some of those questions unanswered, but you're going to get so much more out of the experience. Once you know. And there's nothing wrong with either DIY and keeping it real simple or finding some sort of a template or middle ground solution in the meantime, and we can talk about that a little later if you want to. Yeah. Yeah. Other Other signs that it might be good to hold for the time being are, if you're in a place where you feel like you could design you're branding yourself, if you quote unquote, just knew the software, that's a little bit of a sign that you may not be ready to let go of the reins a little bit and trust your designers process and expertise. And I do get inquiries from folks. Sometimes we're just like, you know, I, I feel like I could design it myself. I just don't know the software, I just need you to like, take my sketches, or take my ideas, my very, very clear ideas and just put them into a graphic. And for those folks, I often say that your investment would be better spent taking the time to learn that software yourself. And actually trying out those ideas that you're set on because entering into a relationship with a a branding designer, and not having trust in them to follow their process or listen to their ideas is not going to be a fun relationship for anyone. So yeah, that would be my advice there is just to if you feel like you can DIY, maybe try that first and see how that works for you and take the or maybe it'll work out for you and that'll be awesome, great. And if it doesn't, you'll have a lot more clarity to bring into the process and you'll you'll know what you want from you'll know what you need help with from that designer.
And then other good reasons to wait or just you know, sometimes Our budget only allows for the bare essentials, and there's no shame there. That's totally fine. There are other solutions, then fully custom design. And then you mentioned timing before. And that's the other big sign that it's a good time to wait. If you just don't have space and your current season of life, to keep up with regular check ins and give feedback. That's okay. But it's just not the time to enter into a rebrand. In my earlier years, I've I've learned this one the hard way. And I've worked with clients. Yeah, I've worked with clients before who just from the get go, we're in an especially busy season. And they were just, this was sort of added the rebrand was sort of added to their pile, and they weren't able to make time to give feedback and the timing that I requested. And we ended up getting off track from that timeline. And it was frustrating and stressful for them. They felt a lot of pressure that they really didn't need right then. And of course it was it caused some logistical issues on my end. So just making sure you and every designer will require different amounts of feedback and different timelines on that from you. So for me, my my branding process is a little tight. And I keep my timelines tight, so that so that folks get their deliverables in what feels like a reasonable amount of time. But it does mean that typically I asked for feedback from my clients on any given deliverable within about two to three business days. And for some folks, it's no problem. And in some seasons of life, I know I couldn't imagine having to turn around, like think on these things that hard and turn around feedback that quickly. So sometimes it's just not the time.
Kate Bendewald
Yeah, I love that. And I to me, and my, my brain is automatically going to Yes. And as interior designers, we need to be having that same expectation of our clients that way, if it's a question we get a lot of the membership is like how long has reasonable to expect feedback. And, you know, I would say like, first of all your client needs to know, at the outset of a project, when deliverables are to be expected and what this timeline is for feedback. So when you set those expectations up early on, you know, you're in a good spot. And that might be a good question for designers, when interviewing potential clients, you know, especially like, clients who want full service design with the full, like concierge level of experience are generally very busy, whether it's professionally or in their lifestyle, whatever, sure, they can't be so busy, they don't have time for you, they need to be able to prioritize that feedback. And it makes a ton of sense to that, you know, if you're going to take on a project to like rebranding that you need to be available to engage with you and what the process so that your heads in the right space, and when it does come time to sit and look at the assets and things that have been created that you you know, that you're feeling excited and energized about it. So that totally resonates. You mentioned seasons, and it just, you know, reminded me that, you know, we have this model, I haven't shared it publicly, but I can explain it that in interior design business, we have these sort of metaphorical seasons that we go through. And we they sort of loop around. And it's the four seasons are dreaming, launching, growing and refining. And a lot of times, you know, dreaming is those initial stages of like getting all of the fundamentals set up. And then launching is like really getting out there into the world and sharing what you have. And then growing is the natural growth that comes from having been out there, people are talking and there's sharing and, you know, there's challenges that come with with all of these. And then refining is like after you have done some of that for a bit, there's all you're always going to be refining. But sometimes refining, you know, happens in these bursts in the seasons. And it's usually happens after some discomfort, you know, whether that's that you have felt tired and burned out, you know, from from work or clients or whatever it may be, it's time to take a step back and look at your, your process and how much you're charging and how you're being perceived in the market. And I know early on one of my big issues was I had, I couldn't say no, I had, I had lots of people interested in my services right out of the gate. So it's very fortunate with with that, but it wasn't charging enough and saying yes, and it was burning out my team and and I knew, you know that it was going to be time to have to change a lot of things right, you know, and it was it was a combination of branding, raising rates, refining our process. And it was a mix of that. And so when you're in that refining season, and then you always come back to you come back to the basics, you come back to looking at things like what is my unique selling proposition who are my ideal clients today because they're not going to be the same today as they were your first year, your third year, your 10th year. It's natural for them to evolve. But if you're never looking at it, if you're never analyzing how things can may have shifted and how that may or may not be reflected in your brand, then you're gonna get stuck in this wheel of continuing to attract, you know, the kinds of people that are not the folks that you want to be working with. So it makes a ton of sense to me everything you just said, well want to go back to something you mentioned a minute ago, because you, you recognize that full service branding isn't always the right move. And you just clearly identified some questions that one might ask. So if somebody's listening, and they have maybe, preliminarily, I think that's a word right? That maybe right now isn't the time for a full brand overhaul, you actually have put together some pretty unique services specifically in mind for those types of clients. Can you talk a little bit about your brand kits in your VIP days? And whatever else you might have for those specific folks?
Carly Teigeler
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah, there's so many great options out there these days for folks and that sort of middle ground stage. But I last year, I started offering semi custom brand kits, because I wanted to have something to be able to support folks who are in that sort of growth stage. Because I think so many folks especially started businesses during the pandemic, and that sort of thing. And they're now in that phase where they've been running for a while, but they're like, we're still you know, figuring some things out, so. So I put together semi custom brand kits, which are essentially, pre made brand identities with logos and sub marks and brand fonts. And even some things like social media templates and business card designs, so essentially, your essentials. And you can choose from a menu of pre made brand options. And we then customize your chosen brand base, to your specifications, and your business name and tagline and all of that. And because the base of it is pre designed, it's roughly a quarter of the price of a fully custom brand identity. The turnaround time is about a third of the time it might otherwise take it's like one to two weeks. And you still get a professional designers eyes and hands on it. Also, it's all polished and good to go. And very in very often in general, but in the case of my kids as well, they can only be sold a limited number of times. So I only sell any one of my semi custom brand kits up to four times. So it's not like there'll be endless brands out there with the exact same logo bases.
Kate Bendewald
Yeah, it does, it popped into my head. And I'd give it much thought. But you've clearly already thought about that. So let me understand what the with the semi custom brand kits, they're getting a kit of parts, but then they get to work with you to sort of tweak them and tailor them in would that include like colors.
Carly Teigeler
So most folks I have found have a decent idea of what color palette they might like. So in essentially, when you purchase one of these kits, you automatically get a questionnaire that asks you a bunch of information about your your brand, and asks you for any color palette inspiration you have. Some folks say I have no idea, go for it. And so I do. But of course I don't have a lot of background information on their business. So it's a little surface level. But if that's what they're cool with, that's cool. The most common responses, folks will share some colors that they feel speak to their brand, because color is such an emotional, we have such emotional responses to callers. So find that that's something that a lot of folks have at least some idea of on their own. So folks will usually share some inspiration that you have and I'll sort of tailor it to work with everything else that's most often how that goes. But I do also for folks who want a more in depth really strategic really digging into a color exploration session, I do offer power our add ons, which are just like 100 bucks more and we hop on a call and we just do it live and we talk through everything we really get into the juice of it. And so we're able to do that with a lot more intention that way.
Kate Bendewald
Oh my gosh, how fun Well, if that makes sense to thinking about audience of interior designers who are most definitely going to have opinions. This is a total aside but I just need to bring this up for a second. So I've recently this game for my kids called Mantis fun i Yeah, it's it's like Color game or your steal you steal colors. It's called Rainbow rainbows and revenge or something like something like that. Anyway, inside the game, there's this little booklet about the mantis shrimp. I did not know about the mantis shrimp. Do you know about the mantis shrimp?
Carly Teigeler
I know nothing about the Mantis you're about the 30/32
Kate Bendewald
Highlight it's fascinating. Okay, so humans our eyes we have rods and cones rods see speed and light come On see color, dogs have two color receptor cones red and green. Humans have three red, green and blue. And I may be getting those colors mixed up. Don't Don't come after me to get the point. The other flies have five color receptors. So in addition to red, green, and blue, they also have two other colors that we don't even have words for language for because we can't see them and we don't understand them. And it's not just the two, the three and the five co receptors, but then it's all the combinations of colors that they make. So red and blue make purple right? So that's all the combinations. Okay, so butterflies can see wildly more color than we can. So five colors plus all of their combinations. The mantis shrimp has 16 Cohn receptors, plus all of the combinations that those 16 make somebody can do. I didn't spend a lot of frickin color. That is a spectrum that is so wide that it's we can't even comprehend it. Well, I know so interesting. Anyway, and then in a side note, the revenge part of this is that the mantis shrimp also happens to be a major asshole. He lives in like water like these warm, shallow waters. And this stuff just blows my mind. They have these claws that they can punch with and grab with and they move so fast. If a human could throw a football 1/10 the speed that the mantis shrimp moves this arm it would send the football into orbit. Oh my gosh. Not even done yet. So
he just like destroys and crushes his food. And it's totally like mean, right?
They can't even be so we have like the Denver aquarium has some of the most beautiful sea life here. They can't aquariums cannot house. The mantis because it has the potential to break the glass.
Carly Teigeler
Oh my goodness. What this is I cannot wait to Google this. mind blank game.
Kate Bendewald
The game is also Frank. All right. Anyway, I think that the apple piece aside, I think that designers are maybe we're born like butterflies, but we just see spectrum of color that I think is so much lighter than the average person. And so that's why we are so emotional and drawn toward color. And I react to it very differently. Anyway. Zack, you don't know that you might learn today on this podcast. You're welcome. Okay, I have one word. Okay, so you have the semi custom breakouts, you also have a VIP day, which I've done with you and was so effective. Tell us about your VIP days. We I think a lot of designers do something similar with design clients. But your process for branding and graphic design web stuff is super cool. Tell us briefly because this could also be another option for somebody who's in that middle space. Not fully ready for a full website overhaul or brand design? How could this work for somebody? Yeah, so
Carly Teigeler
VIP days are essentially where we pick a day where you're where we're both of you're available for two to three checking calls in a day, we make a prioritized to do list of tasks ahead of time, and I plow through it. It's Yes, and we get to have lots of chickens along the way. And we get to work a little collaborative collaboratively. It's great. And VIP days are awesome for things like website updates. So if you have one or two pages of your site that needs an overhaul, it's perfect for that it's perfect for customizing website templates, which some people are like, you know, I could do that on my own. And that's true, you could, but we get to do it with a little bit more code customization a little more tailoring throw in some SEO magic, it's great. In terms of branding and collateral design, we also sometimes use them for developing additional sort of sub marks or secondary logos. Based off of what you already have. It's great for adding some spot illustrations, just additional assets for you to use. And then what most people use them for are things like social media templates, merchandise, marketing materials, welcome guides, all those little client touch points that just need some pixie dust sprinkled over them
Kate Bendewald
for the UFC does what was spot illustrations are?
Carly Teigeler
Yeah, so a lot of times when I'm designing for brands, and say we're, you know, creating a welcome guide for someone and we just want something to make it feel a little bit like it has a little more personality to it. And we're maxed out on you know, photos and cool typography treatments and that kind of thing. Sometimes it's helpful to have little customers illustrations or icons or patterns that are standalone assets that we can layer together with other things. So I call them spot illustrations because it's not a huge composition, sometimes it's an illustration of just use what's on my brain right now, you know, a set of plant life, you know, maybe a lot, a lot of a lot of brands love to use the metaphor of, you know, a bud, a sprig, full grown plant, that kind of thing, little things. I recently did some spot illustrations for a career coach. And we did stuff like palm trees and rocket ships and things like that. But they're just standalone illustrations that can be layered and reused in so many different ways. And that gives you so much flexibility in how you use them and what you know, client touch points they can live in. So that's what a spot illustration is. Got, it makes
Kate Bendewald
makes a ton of sense. And now I'm gonna be going through websites, Spot illustration, illustration, I know what that is. Then, before we go, I want you to share with people because I downloaded this from your website, and it's super cool. Um, you've created your website report card, tell us tell tell fans listening about this report card and how they might use it if they want to get their hands on it.
Carly Teigeler
Yeah, so the idea with the website report card is obviously websites or it can get kind of complex, but there are some really basic guidelines that you can follow that make it a lot easier and more comfortable and more fun for your client to move through the content on your site. And they're pretty black and white. They're pretty straightforward. So one day, I made a list of happened to be 10 different things. And I was like, You know what, this would make a really helpful resource. So I made a report card. So it's got a rubric in it that explains these 10 different elements within your website, things like your primary navigation, your calls to action, what happens is there's a bunch on
Kate Bendewald
there, your architect is told right?
Carly Teigeler
And then good. So it breaks down each of the different sections, what they are, how they're best used. And then it allows you to not just say like, oh, I'm doing this right, or I'm doing this wrong, but there's a scale. So you can get a sense of if you're really doing your best with that element. Or if it needs a little help, or if it needs an overhaul. And then there's an actual report card, you can record your grades on and then at the end, there's a quote unquote, study guide that tells you how to fix any of those elements of your site, depending on what you already have.
Kate Bendewald
Wow, that must have taken you a tremendous amount of work to get off the ground. But I have to tell you, it's incredibly helpful. It provides a tremendous amount of insight whether somebody doesn't tend to DIY their website, or whether this is a way for them to explore, and sort of gauge where where are they right, in terms of needing help and figuring out the best path forward with that. So I love it. I think that everybody listening should go download your report card. Carly, thank you so much. Before we go, I've got three rapid fire questions. Do you have time for a little bit of fun? Yes, let's
Carly Teigeler
do it.
Kate Bendewald
All right. Sounds good. In one word, finish the sentence Good design is
Carly Teigeler
a reflection. I'm big on the art imitates life imitates art stuff. I see so much of it. So I think good design is a reflection of the people who it's for.
Kate Bendewald
Love it. One book that has changed your life.
Carly Teigeler
I would say this is I hate to keep coming back to architecture thing. But the most influential book I've ever read was toward an architecture by Caboose EA. I read it in my early 20s. And I had never heard someone talk about such simple experiences with so much romance. And I just I still read that book every couple of years see
Kate Bendewald
a great next beach read. Or it's a big one. Yeah, holidays, I should say, oh my gosh, I totally forgot about that book. But we certainly referenced that in in design school. The thing that you're most looking forward to right now. Yes,
Carly Teigeler
I am working on more honestly more semi custom kits right now. I'm really excited about them. They've been popping off this year. So I've got to replenish the store a little bit. But I've got some exciting ones coming for the fall. So oh
Kate Bendewald
my gosh, how exciting. So this is a really good time for folks to be taking a peek at your website and all that you have to offer me you shared so many insightful ideas today that really have helped my brain process and think about all of this a little bit differently. I think it's no surprise to the people that are in the designers racist world know that branding is a really important thing to me. And I'm always exploring how to understand it better. And you definitely brought brought to light some ideas today that I think we'll all benefit from. So I really appreciate
Carly Teigeler
it. Well, thank you so much for having me.
Kate Bendewald
Oh my gosh. I want to tell folks where they can find you online.
Carly Teigeler
Yes, yeah. So my handle online is schematic design.co. And since this is a community of a lot of interior designers, y'all will know how to spell schematic, which is great. Yeah. And my website is also schematic design.co. So that's where I am everywhere.
Kate Bendewald
Very cool. Sorry, did you just say Instagram?
Carly Teigeler
Yes, Instagram schematic. design.co. Two.
Kate Bendewald
Got it. And of course, we will make sure to link to all of that in the show notes. I appreciate your time today, Carly. Thanks so much. I'll talk to you soon.
Carly Teigeler
Thank you. Talk to you soon.
Kate Bendewald
Bye. Thank you so much for letting me spend part of this day with you. If you're loving this podcast, please share it with a friend who you think might also love it. Or perhaps you can take just 30 seconds to open your podcast app and leave us a five star rating. And if you have just an extra minute, go ahead and leave a review. This helps me so much and it helps other designers like you to find the podcast. It also adds fuel to my motivation to keep making great episodes just for you. However you choose to help. Please know I appreciate you so very much. Thank you, my friend. Have a wonderful rest of your day and I'll see you next time.
