EP #18 | From Pharmacist to Luxury Virtual Designer with Lauren Sullivan
Welcome to the Designers Oasis podcast. I'm your host, Kate Bendewald, interior designer, mama and CEO of a thriving interior design business, built on authentic word of mouth referrals. It wasn't that long ago that I stepped away from my corporate architecture job to build my own dream, one that would allow me more time with the people that I love, the ability to serve my clients at the highest level, and to make a great living. It wasn't always easy, and I've made my share of mistakes along the way. Fast forward to today, and I've learned a thing or two. This podcast is for you - the inspired, creative, ambitious, and let's admit it, occasionally overwhelmed interior designer who shares this dream of transforming lives by transforming homes. Join me and my guests each week as we walk through practical ways to build an interior design business you love, and helps you transform your clients' lives. You can do this.
Today, I sat down with one of the designers Oasis members Lauren Sullivan of well by design. A luxury virtual interior design studio based out of Tennessee. Well by design has been featured in multiple media outlets including homes and gardens, Southern Living, the Zoe Report and more. After nearly a decade as a pharmacist, Lauren's two greatest loves interiors, and helping others feel their best became more connected than ever. With the launch of well by design. Lauren helps homeowners nationwide to create refined spaces that bring balance to their lives through a bespoke virtual experience. Never one to sacrifice style or substance and always finding the nuanced details. Lauren seeks to prioritize the health of her clients and the environment by choosing safe, organic and sustainable materials. While working with artisans and small businesses as often as possible. With an eye for timeless design, Lauren prides herself in tying together the tiniest of details that truly make a space feel unique to each client. Today, she opens up and shares the three critical elements of working with clients virtually, along with her experience of building her own home, and how that has helped prepare her own clients for the road ahead. Let's listen to the interview now. Hi, good afternoon, Lauren, thank you so much for being here with me today. How are you?
Lauren Sullivan
I'm doing well. How are you?
Kate Bendewald
I'm great. I'm so excited to have each day. For those folks listening. This is Lauren Sullivan. From well by design and virtual design company out of Tennessee. She's also happens to be a designer's Oasis membership. And I cannot be more excited to have you today because you offer some really cool services. And I wanted you to share a bit about that. But also you just have such a lot of cool things going on. And I'm excited to have you share today with our audience. Your story about transitioning from being a pharmacist to an interior designer, also learning more about how you offer these really high end e design services or virtual design services, as well as this like very exciting, huge project that you have of your own of building your own home from scratch. So are you ready to talk about all of that today?
Lauren Sullivan
That sounds like a lot but yes, I'm ready. But thank you really so much for having me. I'm excited to be here.
Kate Bendewald
It's it's great to have you, Lauren. I want to start I love to hear people's backstories and how you kind of found yourself in the world of design. So I know you're you're career started, I believe as a pharmacist, and then you moved into interior design. Can you tell me walk me through that progression and how that I'm all played out for you.
Lauren Sullivan
Yes. So I feel like that's a long story. But when I was like really little, my mom and my stepdad, they always like, did their own renovation projects at our house. Like, my stepdad had his own, like, business, you know, in health care, but he was always like doing projects on the side working remodeling, anything he could do himself, he was like, No, I can just I can do that. So I watched all of that. Like, when I was little, you know, I would just design my little bedroom like exactly how I wanted it. The colors, the Comforter, the wallpaper back then because you know, we're like 80s 90s I had a bedroom that was rag rolled, which is like a sin to even talk about now. Gosh, I love it. Yeah, so it all started like then I just noticed, even at an early age that I loved doing those things and putting the things together in my bedroom. And then each time we moved, it was like, well, what's the design going to be of my bedroom. So that started and then my grandmother, she always had this picture, perfect traditional home. That is where the majority of my childhood took place. I'm very close to my grandparents still. And so I always watched her do everything in her house. And then she also did like floral arranging on the side, never professionally, but she could have. So I just she was always so creative. She loves to paint. And so she even drew out her own kitchen design plans for her contractor. And he used them to work off of for a remodel that was like, I don't know, 10 or 15 years ago. So that's where it all came from. I've just always been exposed to it, and I enjoyed it. So but I never really considered it a real career, which I you know, is not good to say but that's just how I viewed it. And so that I started working in a pharmacy in high school because I always thought, well, I need to do something in the medical field. And I loved it, I really did. And no day was ever, you know, no two days are ever the same. And there was tons of like interaction with patients. And so I went to pharmacy school, and after two years of undergrad, so that was six years. And then I graduated in 2011. And I went to work retail after graduating, and I'd grown up in an independent pharmacy all those years. So I didn't I wasn't exposed to that retail like setting as much until school. But anyway, I worked retail for a few years after I graduated. And I just knew that was going to be not what I wanted to spend my life doing because it's just constant bombardment by patients and phone calls and doctors and questions and just it's an there's, there's a lot of regulations, and I enjoyed it, I still work in pharmacy, I still do enjoy it, I work very rarely now but but anyway, there was a point in like, 2016, where I knew that I wanted to do something else, like this is not what I want to spend the rest of my life doing. But I'm not I never wanted to just totally give up pharmacy and I still don't that could eventually change. But um, anyway, so on a whim enrolled in New York School of interior designs, healthcare design program, and they they mesh, like interior design students that have a bachelor's in interior design with healthcare professionals. So that was an eye opening experience because it was a it was a two year program and I learned so much so much about sustainability and material choices and how all of that works together and and really how like a space functions because in like health care, you know, design you do, and you do it someone residential, but you do like a program of the space like exactly how it's going to be used and function. So that really taught me a lot about like, it can be beautiful, but it has to work well, you know, and function. So we I went through that program, and like had to teach myself AutoCAD and SketchUp. And I think they just felt sorry for me because they gave they gave me like the Chairman's Award at the end of the two years. And I'm like, the design students work looks 1400 times better than mine. We all know that. Like, it's, it's, you know, but anyway, so that was like a huge experience. Like I will knit like it was a lot of work. And it was hard like I would, it was all virtual, but then I would also come to New York on occasion.
But it was looking back at it like it was worth every bit of it because it was such a great experience. So and I don't think you have to go to school to be a designer at all, but in my case, it definitely It was eye opening in it, even though I didn't pursue the healthcare design route, because I knew after it, you know, because when I did it, I was like, Oh, this is perfect. It meshes my healthcare background with design. That's great. You know, in my head, but then I knew like I really first, even from my childhood loved residential design. So ultimately, that's what happened.
Kate Bendewald
Well, you come by it. So honestly, it sounds like from a family that really nurtured creativity and were sounds like pretty resourceful to and have a lot of their own ideas and like to see those come to life. So it makes sense that that would be a natural progression for you. So then I'm, I love hearing people's backstories too, especially designers, so many of the members in designers voices have similar stories like yours, that they, this is usually for many, many of them a second, if not third, career interior designers. And a lot of designers have this difficult time extrapolating their expertise from their previous career. And having it make sense in design and have a hard time seeing that string, but for you, in healthcare, it comes through so clearly. So for you, and I want you to talk about how you came about naming your business? Well, by design, and then a little bit about just the well by design ethos, and how you bring this idea of living well and healthy, and bringing that into the home.
Lauren Sullivan
So Well by design started as just a blog, and it was more about wellness. I named it that with the intention of eventually offering design services, because I knew at some point, I would want to do that. But I at the time it started I had no intention of that really at that moment. But um, so that just kind of came as a natural thing. Because I knew I wanted to bring in the wellness aspect of pharmacy and, and helping people feel well, and so like, the whole idea in my head was you know, I've helped people feel well through medications, and, and over the counter things and all these recommendations, but then you can also feel well through the design of your space. And so that was sort of where it all came from. And then I think the biggest key word in everything is balance. Because, you know, I talk a lot, especially in my blog post on the website, there's a lot in there about non toxic interior design and healthier options and, and natural materials and things. But I think you have to come at that with a bit of balance, like, you know, it's unrealistic to think you're not going to be exposed to any toxins whatsoever. Like it's just it's, I don't I don't think it's a realistic expectation. So I think little choices add up, but you don't necessarily have to take it to a major extreme to feel better about your design selections or your finishes, you know, to see a difference. So
Kate Bendewald
I love that balanced approach too. Because there are some people that can get pretty radical about anything, right? And so right like this balanced approach where it's, you know, make some really big, impactful choices, but don't feel like you have to be so rigid about it. So well by design actually started as a blog and what, at that time, were you blogging about all things wellness, not just home and tell me a bit about how that evolution happened.
Lauren Sullivan
It was pretty much all things wellness. I will say it was not like this major, highly recognized success, successful blog at all, like he was, you know, like, if you looked at it now, it'd be like what? But you're probably good anyway yourself. No, no, I'm not I'm really not. There was a major, there was a major branding overhaul before I started offering design services so that Well, it all just it really just changed when I just made the decision. Okay, I feel like I have kind of gathered as much info as I can at this point. And I'm ready to start offering design services. That's when I made the switch to changing the website, changing the branding, and all those things with the the original blog. So
Kate Bendewald
well, I just want to encourage listeners to go ahead and take a peek at her website, which is well by design.com and her blog, Lauren, first of all, your website is absolutely stunning. It's so beautiful. It's so clean and crisp and gorgeous. But your blog actually has a tremendous amount of content on it that is super valuable not only to homeowners but designers as well. And I can very easily see going down a rabbit hole of the content here on your website and your blog. So I know all of that hard work has really paid off for you. And not only that your Instagram feed is so beautiful. It's one of those aspirational Instagram feeds. So you've really got down the the branding aspect of your business in a really beautiful way that I think is very, very attractive. So well done there.
Lauren Sullivan
Well, thank you I do have to give a shout out to ID CO and Anastasia Casey and her absolutely great team because that is where my website and my branding originate from. So that did you Yeah, there?
Kate Bendewald
Did you work one on one with them? Or Or do one of their packages?
Lauren Sullivan
Um, well, so it was a couple of years ago now. But um, I did one of their Yeah, I did one of their website packages, but then I also like, have tweaked things a bit with it, and then had them helped do a little bit of the copy on it from time to time or make adjustments like, I've updated the website a few times since it was originally set up. But with Instagram, I do. Like, I share other designers work, there is a camp that obviously believes that's not appropriate whatsoever. But I don't look at my Instagram as a portfolio, like you go to my website and click on portfolio if you'd like to see that. So for me, I don't I love promoting other people's work. I also make it a point whenever I do that to like give an educational bit about like what I like about this, what you should take note of like, it's not just here's this post. And I try really hard to like to weave that into the messaging of of my Instagram. So yeah, and I've never had people come back and be like, Why did you share that, like, they're always appreciative of that. So I don't, I think if you do that entirely on your Instagram feed, that would be a problem. But I also think that there's a place for it, and that when it's done correctly, it can be a win win for everybody. So I actually
Kate Bendewald
agree with you. And I do know that there are people who are in a different camp, and that's okay. But I was literally just talking about this in Podcast Episode A few weeks ago at this point. But that that is one way that you can add content when it's mixed in with your own original content. And I know that you do it to perfection, making sure that you know, the people that need credit are being credited, such as the designer photographer, and if it was published in a magazine or making sure that credit is given where credit is due. But I like that you even take this a step further and make it kind of educational. So that's, I think a really great takeaway here for those that are listening.
Lauren Sullivan
crisis. Yeah, great time to to build a house so Well it started in 2020. I was on Pinterest my husband and I knew we wanted to build a home. And I was on Pinterest and I found this Belgian style farmhouse and I was like whoever was the architect for this home. That's who I want to do our house. So I like researched it. And I found Brooks and politico and Connecticut. And I contacted Louise Brooks or I contacted them and she was the one that I they called me one day and we we just talked about what I was what we were looking for and and what it would be like to work together and that's how it all started. And so, you know, I always Say if you can fit it into the budget and what your ultimate goal is with your home, it's it's amazing to work with an architect who is there with you till the end, because they're like an advocate for you, with the builder with the subcontractors with everything. And so that has been invaluable to our process. There have been times I have been ready to pull my hair out strangle people. But there's been There have been days where it's like, you know, why, why are we doing this, but the biggest thing I would say is to order things early and never anticipate anything coming when it says it's going to arrive. Because for us, one of the biggest issues was our windows because they had to ship from overseas. And that was a nightmare. And then it was in the middle of COVID, when like places in Italy were shut down. So it was it was a huge ordeal. But yeah, I and communication, like I can't go over that enough how important it is with everyone. And just not playing the blame game. Because that's often what happens. I feel like between everybody, so but we've got really great people that have been working on it. And even though it's excruciatingly slow, it's, it's still going to be worth it in the end. So we're just persevering through.
Kate Bendewald
Yes, I know. And it's gonna be so worth it. But I absolutely love following along on Instagram, because you share some really cool behind the scenes. I know you just had some custom doors installed, and they look like they're going to be absolutely stunning. So it'll all be worth it in the end. But I tell me a bit how this process of building your own home has influenced your the way you work with your own clients in your business.
Lauren Sullivan
So it's definitely had an influence on it, because I have some people that come to me that want me to look at their plans, and give them feedback, which is always fun, and I enjoy doing that. But it's and that and until I delved into my own home plans to the level I did, like, I don't think I would have as much insight on giving feedback to those people with those plans now. And just like, You know what, what to expect, like, there's so many things and just working with subcontractors and making sure that like, you know, if you if it, designing it to how you live, like in our laundry room, we have like two washers in one dryer, because I hang everything up pretty much to dry. And that's odd, because it's three, not four. And, you know, it's just little like things like that, like, that people don't really think about I feel like when they go into the process, and then they're like, oh, we should have thought of that. Or we should have thought of this. And until like, there's just a lot of ways that I can be like, you know, I question like, Well, what do you do when you get up in the morning? Or like, what do you what do you do before you go to bed? Or do you need like a little outlet in your bathroom? For like a skincare fridge in the future? Or now? Or like what are your dogs do? Like, where are they at? Like, where are you going to take your dogs out to go to the bathroom? Like what's most accessible for like, where's where should this door be? You know, like, stuff like that there's just an endless number of, of, you know, considerations when you're starting something from scratch. So yeah,
Kate Bendewald
yes, getting starting from scratch can be kind of hard, because it's just like this blank space that you have to shape. And I've always worked best when I have something to start with. I haven't always been I haven't always had that luxury. But for me, it's a bit easier to start what you just said really tapped into something that I love to talk about, which is when we think about a team of a design team. So architects, builders, contractors and designers, and I have clients that come to me sometimes and ask like, how do you how do you fit into this in terms of your role. And it's pretty obvious from like, selecting materials and layouts and lighting plans and all of that. But one of the things that I like to educate clients on and that you just articulated so beautifully was, you know, an architect is going to look at your home through the the x through the lens of the interior to but the shape and the form of the structure and the materiality of the exterior as well as the interior. The builder contractor is really looking at time and budget materials and sequencing trades and getting it done and execution and a designer in addition to our expertise from a material standpoint. Layout, functionality, beauty all of those things. I think the thing that we really bring to the table is the lifestyle aspect is under looking at the project through the lifestyle lens, and you just gave some incredible examples of things that are questions that you're going to bring to the table and to the clients that a contractor architects might not do or might not think about, you're thinking about the dogs, you're thinking about the kids, you're thinking about the laundry, and cooking and all of those things, and making sure that those design decisions are going to support the homeowners or building owners in the case of commercial, so that it works the best for them. And it sounds like your clients are in for a real treat when they get to work with you, because you really do bring that to the forefront of, of working with them.
Lauren Sullivan
So like another example of that, that's kind of humorous. My husband likes a lot of sugar or other things like in his coffee. So he makes a big mess with those. And I told the architects in our millwork drawings, I was like we need in the coffee bar to have like a pullout, there's a pullout trashcan. But there's also this like, almost like a counter like a butcher block type countertop above the trash can. And I said I want to put a little hole in that so that when you're pouring your your coffee, and you're putting all your things in it that all that remnant of sugar and dust can just be raked into the trash can below because it goes everywhere. So that's yeah, it's just to that extent, like these little tiny things, that details that can help improve the functionality, but you know, really make your house like your home. So yeah,
Kate Bendewald
I absolutely love that. And I can't wait to see pictures of that little detail. When it's all said and done. Let's let's chat about some of the work that you're doing right now. So Lauren, you are exclusively a virtual designer. And that was a very intentional decision that you made, I want you to share a little bit first about how you came to the decision that that was going to be your niche. And that was going to be how you would work and how you came to that decision.
Lauren Sullivan
Um, so when I first started thinking about design services to offer, I knew then that like, I will project manage my own home all day long, barely. But you just there's nothing that would make me happy about doing project management and, and being there for, you know, till the final install for clients. And so it just wasn't worth it for me for like my sanity, or the fact that I don't really have the bandwidth for that either. So it was just a very intentional thing for me to choose virtual design, because I knew that I could make it a high level experience, but also do it from anywhere that I had an internet connection. So that was a huge thing for me, because we we travel and we like to travel a lot. So it was something that I could easily if I chose to do from anywhere, really. So that was a huge thing for me. And also, you know, when I started this, I looked at all these people, and they're all most of them are doing full service design. And that's great. And I feel like, you know, a lot of people love that. That's their their thing. But I initially felt obligated to do it. So much so that it was like, almost like a little drop down service on my website. And I was like, Wait, if somebody actually wants to do that, like, I have no process for this, like, I have all these processes for virtual design. But I have nothing for like how I would handle that. And I was like, why am I even offering it? Like, take it down? So I did, and I couldn't be happier about it. Because I mean, it's just not it's not something I'm interested in doing. I mean, maybe that'll change someday. But I'm highly doubting it. So. But anyway, we talked
Kate Bendewald
about in the in the membership, a lot of you were on the podcast, you'll hear me say, till I'm blue in the face. There's no one size fits all approach to how you run your design business. And you are a perfect example of somebody who wanted to be able to offer elevated and high end design services, but drew the line at saying no to something that it's not that you couldn't do those, but it's not the kind of work that lights you up. And there's a ton of pressure for designers to a either do it all or do the things that they think that they're supposed to. And I'm using air quotes here. Right? And I love that you. You were more interested in doing the design work but also balancing that with prioritizing your family, your own lifestyle, your desire to travel, and sort of protecting that and being able to make both work. And so tell me a little bit about how you run your virtual design services, I want to, I want to hear a bit about your process.
Lauren Sullivan
So I offer a virtual consultation. It's 90 minutes. And then I give them like a little mini questionnaire beforehand, they pay for everything up front. And then at the end of it, after they've scheduled it, they get a written response for me of all the summary of everything that we talked about any next steps and things like that. I use Canva, like all the time, for everything, I use dubsado. And I use my DOMA for my studio. And so like clients will go to my DOMA to see like deliverables, things like that. With the highest service offering that we have, they would get like physical samples. It's like a whole package like delivered to them in the mail, plus all the online like digital copies. The middle service, you're not, which is a new thing we're just transitioning to, but you're not going to receive any physical things with that, or like the extra implementation, email support guidance type stuff, it's like, here's the design more or less. So that's with like, the middle option. But another thing, like, I feel like a lot of people think you can't get photos with virtual design projects. But you totally can, like I have it in my contract, that if I want to get photos, like if you know, this all goes well, then like you do a good job. But if if it goes well, then I can totally come get photos like and they they've agreed to that. And of course, I mean, if somebody says I don't want it, then I'm not going to come get them but but most of the time, I feel like people are like, of course, I want my photos, the photos taken, you know, sure. But, um, but yeah, and I just bring styling stuff for that. But I do get really specific when I do the designs. So like, I'm down to like towel hooks and things and bathrooms. So there's not like a whole lot for me to bring in. So, but there's still it can be it totally can be done. If you want the photos, I feel like because I don't know, I just feel like there's a huge misconception about that. But I don't know, I think that I mean, I been able to get photos. So I don't know,
Kate Bendewald
that's fantastic. And I will fully admit that I'm in that camp of full service design is gonna give you the most photographable The best shot at gorgeous finished photographs for your portfolio. And so I like that this is sort of testing that a little bit. So the way that you implement this, first of all, it sounds like you do an incredible job of getting down to brass tacks when it comes to the details, and really leaving nothing left for the client to have to try to figure out on their own. So that would be a really key distinction. And we and we're no longer offering virtual services. Right now I've just because I've had my focus on dissenters oasis for the last couple of years. But when I did it, we were super thorough, and I and and then getting down to those details. And so I think that that's an important distinction for getting photos achieved. And then you also have it in your contract, which I think is super important. So Lauren, I want to ask you this other question, you have decided to exclusively offer virtual design services. And you've really clearly indicated why that was important for you. Because you and I know that virtual design services are not for everybody, I want you to talk a little bit about how, when you're interacting with a prospective new client, what are some of what's some of the most important things that you think about when deciding if a client is going to be a good fit for virtual design services.
Lauren Sullivan
So I feel like there's so many things. But the two biggest things that I look for is trust. And I think that's with any design client, like they have to be trusting of you and the vision that you have and what you want to do. They have to trust you and your process and, and a lot of trust. But also communication is so important for virtual design, because like if you aren't going to respond to my emails, or give me the approvals that I need in your studio on my DOMA, like it's because it's virtual in nature, like you have to be a good communicator and and I don't think age is a barrier to that. But I think people's lifestyle and like do you check your emails constantly like I do, and like you can't stand to have the like little red thing on your inbox on your phone. Are you like, I can have 4000 And it's like totally fine, because I know there's like two types of people you know, so it's just like if you you just have to evaluate like how well of a communicator they're going to be also like their initiative like are they going to take this and might be able to run with it or not? or, or do they need full service because there's some people that I'm like, I don't, I just don't think this is for you. And then there's other people who have actually surprised me, like, you know, they're busy professionals, but they want to be able to have control of the design and do it on their own. And I would have thought these people need full service, but they, they did virtual design, and they, they loved it. So I don't know, it can be deceiving, but I'm also a little picky when it comes to like vetting clients and evaluating red flags. And I know, that's not like, probably how everyone is, or, or once or, you know, views it, but I just say it's your business. And if it's gonna make you miserable, to work with somebody, like there will be someone else that will not be miserable to work with. And so I really protect, like my time and my bandwidth and what I put my energy to, because I just, I'm super careful about about the clients that I that I take on and even the projects just because I don't know I have to be and if, if you want to be picky, it's your business. And you know, you decide who you work with. So
Kate Bendewald
I think it's wise to be picky about who you work with, let's be honest, these are long term projects, even virtual design can take a number of months. And it is very difficult and draining to work with somebody who is going to constantly be a challenge for you. And I tell designers, you know, even from the very beginning, it's okay to say no, because you're not closing a door, you're leaving the door open for the right person. And so I think I just think it's wise, you know, to be able to make space for the types of people that are going to be fun to work with and are going, who are going to communicate well with you, like you said, and trust you A trust is so huge, like you said in any project, but it's nice to hear you say that trust communication. And, you know, just making sure that they're going to have the initiative, I thought it was a good word for you to use to disguise Yeah.
Lauren Sullivan
And I feel like you're never going to get all the red flags, like you're not going to catch them all. And you're going to the more people that you deal with the more red flags, you're going to be able to spot click more quickly. But I just, you know, for me, if it's not going to be portfolio where the if it doesn't like light me up creatively, or if it's not something I want to take on or, you know, someone I want to work with, it's like, why am I going to do this? Is you know, so it's, it's just something to think about? But yeah,
Kate Bendewald
you know, that brings up something else about charging more for virtual design and getting those portfolio worthy pictures, because it's occurring to me that, you know, we don't, we charge a lot for our design services there. It's basically the same, but it would be for full service, except that the intent is that they take it afterwards and execute it on their own, which is a lot like what you do. But we see these cheap, and I'm using air quotes, online design services. And I know that there's a lot of people that are like, How can I compete with that. And, you know, I talk a lot about it, you've heard it, you just hit on it a little bit here. It's like, well, you provide a higher level of design and then level of service that warrants this higher ticket price tag. But the other benefit or unintended consequence, or good thing that comes out of this, I should say is that when somebody invest that kind of money in high end design, they're far more likely to implement the design just as it was created for them, which is going to in turn give you more portfolio worthy pictures. I just had an aha moment. That's great.
Lauren Sullivan
Yeah, that's true. Like, if you spend if I spend a lot on something, I'm gonna want to see that through like, yeah, you know, that's, that's totally true. So, but yeah, and I, it all comes back to like, you get what you pay for you really do like in most things, I mean, anyway, so
Kate Bendewald
that could that could not be more that's so true. And I have I have a little confession to make. When I was doing some research on virtual design services actually, it was worth it for me to pay the like $200 for one of them I'm not gonna say names but one of these like very popular online design companies just to see what was the process like for them to be a customer or client on on that end and it just it doesn't it pales in comparison to what kind of virtual services you would offer or I would offer any of these designers who are offering a high ticket high end virtual design service and so you get with you don't need to do this yourself. I will vouch that what you pay for in this in this situation, but I just needed to do it myself. What is what is the design look like? What are the communications like, and it, you know, it definitely reflected in the price tag. So, but there is an audience for that there is a customer for that, right and totally in it and it, it has a place in the marketplace. That's not our marketplace, but it exists just like yeah, go buy a handbag at Target. Or you can go buy a Louis Vuitton purse, and they're both purses are both gonna hold your stuff.
Lauren Sullivan
Right, exactly.
Kate Bendewald
But the the details and the way it's made, and the quality of construction, all of that are going to be far, far different. So it's like that, I guess, with everything and services are no different. So thanks for sharing that aspect with me. It sounds like you have a couple of tiers of services. And so I know that a lot of designers will price an E design or virtual service on the room type. How do you price your services? Do you do a custom proposal? Based on the scope of work just like you would for full service? And then offer multiple levels of services within that custom proposal? Or do you price it per room? How do you how do you structure that a little bit?
Lauren Sullivan
So first of all, I will say touching back on like full service with the photos, I do feel like what you said you're you're correct. I mean, a full service project is going to have more photos, because typically with virtual design, I mean, I've done nearly a whole house, but you're not most of the time doing a full house or home. So I mean, you are going to get obviously, most likely more bathrooms more bedrooms, like more things with a full service photoshoot. Um, but I also like virtual projects where I'm doing more than one room like I mean, I will do one room if it's if it's somebody that I want to work with, but it's not like obviously, if they're going to do one room, they typically have more than one room they want help with. So it's a bit I do it price it by room type. And it's a flat rate, flat fee for the design, there are certain things that can be added on and like a package, which is also a flat rate. And then I charge separately for renderings. Based on if I think they would benefit from them. Like I just did a bathroom where I knew that it would be helpful for them to see. So I said, Hey, do you want to to? Do you want to have renderings done? It would be between this number and this number ballpark price? And they were like sure we need that. So the renderings yourself or do you outsource the real I outsource things? Yeah, and a lot of times I outsource the floor plans and elevations too, because it's just quicker and easier. I mean, I have not opened AutoCAD in a little bit of time now. And I feel like for me, it would be so much time spent, like getting back to really quick moving things in there versus somebody else doing it. So it can be a huge time saver and money saver. I feel like so. Yeah. But I also
Kate Bendewald
can ever do there because I want to ask you, I want to ask you about that specifically, I have I know a lot of designers outsource their drawings and renderings. And I think that's a really smart way to go about it. Especially if you're a small team so that you can have your time back. We've always done our own. But I think in the future, if I were doing this, I would consider that. So do you provide them with hand sketches of what you want? And then ask them to put that into their software and take it up from from there?
Lauren Sullivan
Yeah, I do. And then I include like a big email of like, all these details that they probably want to like, you know, punch me over that. But yeah, I would really appreciate that email. Yeah, it starts is like, Yeah, I'm like, I don't want to leave any questions here. But it starts as a hand sketch. And it's usually a pretty ugly hand sketch. And then we just kind of go back and forth. But yeah, it's, it's, it's not been a problem. And I base everything off the measurements that the client gives me. So it's like, you better know that your measurements are correct, obviously. But But yeah, everything's based off their measurements. And then I do my flat fees, they pay everything upfront. And I don't that's really never been a question or an issue. I mean, I see the value in doing like half for the concept and then half when the designs delivered final, the final design, but typically, I've just always charged everything upfront. So
Kate Bendewald
that's how we do it for virtual as well. And then full service. It has broken out into some phases, but I think that's kind of the standard for for virtual design services. So that makes sense to me personally.
Unknown Speaker
Yeah, I feel like people appreciate it when they know how much it's gonna cost. Like there's not like this question of, well, how many, you know, hours are you going to actually bill me for or? I don't know, I just, I'd like I like that myself personally. So I try to, I don't know. Think about it like that.
Kate Bendewald
So so you've got let's talk about these tiered rates for virtual little design. So you've got a flat rate for design. And then it sounds like you also offer some additional, more concierge type level of service. Beyond that, as an add on as optional add ons, can you talk a little bit about what those add ons might look like and what that might include?
Unknown Speaker
Yeah, so this is actually all new. Like, this is just a thing that we've just, we're just now starting to change. So this is like brand new, not even on like, really the website or anything. But no, but yeah, we're like for that optional. highest tier, the add on package, there's a few things in it, one of which is like continued email support for X many hours and up to like two months. So that's one thing people really like that also includes like the physical samples, like actually mailing them, that kit is in the highest tier, because the middle tier, you're not getting those samples, delivered, like you are in the higher one. And there's, there's a couple of other items that that are included in that top tier service. But it's really just meant to be like a more luxurious virtual design experience. Overall. I mean, I will say like the middle tier is not typical virtual design either. But the the top tier kind of just takes it up to an extra little level that most people aren't getting. So that's kind of what makes it a little bit unique.
Kate Bendewald
I was just talking about this. Again, I think at that same episode, it's funny that we're coming back to that. This is the idea of price anchoring, which is a is I think, a really smart way to provide proposals. So it's this idea of giving them their this base option, which is already a big investment. But then when you provide contrast, when you contrast that with another tier of service with all of these additional things, and in the example I was using, I was talking about full service, this is a really great example of doing the same idea but with virtual design services. But essentially adding this whole extra layer of additional features and add ons that could be beneficial in that many clients actually will go for given the option. But by contrast, it makes that lower tier version. And you could even have three versions if you wanted. But it makes that sort of initial offer look way more enticing when it's contrasted with this higher end more luxury service. So it's a very common marketing technique and selling technique. And I but also I find myself all the time when I'm looking at software, for example, they always have tiers of service. And, you know, I might start at the initial one just to get going, but then eventually upgrade to the pro or whatever, because I needed want that extra level of whether it's service or features, or whatever it is. So I think clients appreciate having options and having choices. And it sounds like you've really nailed that down beautifully.
Lauren Sullivan
We're working on it. But yes,
Kate Bendewald
it's always a work in progress. And yeah, it made you What made you come around to deciding that your clients would would appreciate having some options, some more options like that, do you mind sharing that?
Lauren Sullivan
Well, honestly, it was because I was giving away too much for a little bit too little, like I was just kind of going over achieving above and beyond, and not really getting competent, compensated well for it. So like I had to make a little change there. Because, you know, when I see something I want to like take it to the extreme and like, you're not going to question any of this and like, here's down to the whatever, how to do this and how it's gonna look and and you like, you can't do that unless they're paying for it. Yeah, charge.
Kate Bendewald
I totally understand. I've definitely been there. And I know that our listeners would would get that in and understand that as well. Well, I think it's a good thing to point out too, that, you know, you're not going to always get it right the first time and your business is going to constantly be refining, refine or die, you know, and so this is a sample of you saying, you know, recognizing that that there's either some burnout there or that you're you know, undervaluing your yourself by not, you know, making sure that you're compensated, so a way to tweak your services that works both for you and the client. So now the client has options to choose from, right and you feel good about getting paid your worth for the value that you bring. So I think that makes a ton of sense. And I think it's good to normalize to business owners and interior designers alike like us that it's okay if if something isn't working out to go back and fix it. It doesn't mean you've made a mistake. It just means that you've seen something you've experienced It's something that has changed your perspective on it. And that's totally normal.
Lauren Sullivan
Right? Yeah, it's constantly changing. So, you know,
Kate Bendewald
Lauren, before we go, can I ask you a couple of rapid fire questions unprompted? I did not send these to you in advance. So no
Lauren Sullivan
pressure? Yes, sure.
Kate Bendewald
All right, in one word, good design is balanced. Oh, I love that. One book that has changed your life? Oh.
Lauren Sullivan
Well, this, I don't know if it changed my life, but it's really, really good. And I loved every bit of it. And it's called the nightingale. And it's takes place in World War Two. So I love it. I don't know that it's changed my life. But it's definitely very met very memorable. And yeah, it was one you just can't put down. So
Kate Bendewald
Oh, I love that. I absolutely love that. All right. Last question. The The one thing I'm most looking forward to right now, is my house being completed? For sure, for sure. All we imagine, I know, that's a big target. But as of right now, where does that stand? Do you have an idea?
Lauren Sullivan
Hopefully, you know, the very beginning of the first quarter of 2023. So we had high hopes of the holidays there. But that's likely not going to happen. So yeah, just after the start of 2023 would be wonderful. But you know, you pick these things out like two years ago, and you're like, hope I love everything still, which so far I have. But it's it's it can be tricky, because and that's what happens in some of these big construction projects. It's like, you pick these things out, and then you don't actually see them installed for two years or so. So it's crazy. But yeah,
Kate Bendewald
we're getting ready to do an install on a project that, you know, everything was ordered, like last October. And so there's so much of it that I'm like, Okay, it's all on paper. And I, in theory, know what this is all gonna look like. But it's been so long. And it feels somewhat detached from the design, and it's going to almost feel new again. And I hope I feel the same about it. When
Lauren Sullivan
rides together. I hear like fingers crossed. Yeah,
Kate Bendewald
I know. Well, I just want to tell our listeners, if you guys want to follow along on this really exciting building adventure that Lauren and her family are going through and follow her on Instagram at well, by design, it's going to be absolutely stunning. I cannot wait to see it all come together. Good luck with everything and all these exciting changes in your business too. And just for being an awesome member in the designer spaces membership. I love to hear member stories and how you guys are doing things. And it sounds like you have really got yourself a thriving design business on your hands. So we appreciate your time today, Lauren.
Lauren Sullivan
Well, thank you so much. And I really do appreciate everything that's a part of designers oasis. It's been really helpful for me from the start. So I appreciate it.
Kate Bendewald
You're great. Awesome. All right, Lauren, we'll talk to you real soon. Okay, thanks.
Lauren Sullivan
Bye. Bye, bye.
Kate Bendewald
Thank you so much for letting me spend part of this day with you. If you're loving this podcast, please share it with a friend who you think might also love it. Or perhaps you can take just 30 seconds to open your podcast app and leave us a five star rating. And if you have just an extra minute, go ahead and leave a review. This helps me so much and it helps other designers like you to find the podcast. It also adds fuel to my motivation to keep making great episodes just for you. However you choose to help, please No, I appreciate you so very much. Thank you, my friend. Have a wonderful rest of your day and I'll see you next time.
