EP #51 | How to add a Lead Magnet to your Marketing Strategy with Katie Boyce
Welcome to the Designers Oasis podcast. I'm your host, Kate Bendewald, interior designer, mama and CEO of a thriving interior design business, built on authentic word of mouth referrals. It wasn't that long ago that I stepped away from my corporate architecture job to build my own dream, one that would allow me more time with the people that I love, the ability to serve my clients at the highest level, and to make a great living. It wasn't always easy, and I've made my share of mistakes along the way. Fast forward to today, and I've learned a thing or two. This podcast is for you - the inspired, creative, ambitious, and let's admit it, occasionally overwhelmed interior designer who shares this dream of transforming lives by transforming homes. Join me and my guests each week as we walk through practical ways to build an interior design business you love, and helps you transform your clients' lives. You can do this.
Kate Bendewald
Today, I am joined by Katie Boyce, a copywriting and brand messaging expert for interior designers. If you feel like every time you post on social media, you're yelling into the digital void, it may be time to reconsider your marketing strategy. Today, we're talking about lead magnets and how effective they are at building that know like and trust factor with your clients. Lead Magnet alongside a nurture sequence and an email strategy is an incredibly effective way to connect with your ideal client. But there are a few things you have to get right in order for them to work well. Today, can you shed light on how to create an effective lead magnet and what to do once you've created it so that you stay connected with your potential clients. Please welcome my guest, Katie Boyce. Hi, Katie. Welcome to the show.
Katie Boyce
Hi, thanks so much for having me.
Kate Bendewald
All right, guys. Today, my guest is Katie Boyce. Katie is a copywriter and brand messaging expert for interior designers. And Katie, I came across you and your website and your Instagram a few months ago. And you have some really great information about lead magnets. And I know as a copywriter, you could probably talk about a million different topics. But I wanted to specifically bring you in and talk have you share your expertise on lead magnets and how interior designers can use them as part of their marketing strategy. And so I'm so grateful we hopped on the phone, and you were like, yes, well, let's talk about it. And so here we are. I'm thrilled to have you. How are you doing today?
Katie Boyce
I'm good. Thanks. I'm really excited to geek out about lead magnets with you for a little bit because I think it's a really underutilized part of the marketing strategy available to interior designers. And I would love to love to dig in and kind of demystify it and shed some light on how it can really be a powerful way to market interior design businesses.
Kate Bendewald
Oh, I'm thrilled to get into this. Yeah, I think it's one of those things that I can guarantee you. Every listener listening to this episode, has engaged with the lead magnet themselves. from a user standpoint, it's a free free download PDF, a free template free guide. If you've been on my website, I definitely offer some lead magnets. And so we understand what they are from a user standpoint. But on the backend, I think there is a ton of mystery around how to create one what kind of content do you put in there and then attack like, how do you set it up? And then after you've created on how to, you know, what do we do with it afterwards? And so, I think this is a really important thing for us to be chatting about. Before we get into that though. Tell us a little bit about yourself. Katie, where are you from? And how did you get into the world of copywriting and specifically focusing on interior designers?
Katie Boyce
Yeah, so I am chatting with you today from Minneapolis, Minnesota area. And as far as how I got into copywriting in general, I would say on accident um I have been adjacent to the art and design field forever. My undergrad is in fine arts. I was actually in grad school for interior design for a minute, but the 2008 recession made that look like a very poor investment on my end. So I stayed adjacent worked at the Crate and Barrel furniture and Harvard Square built sort of plays and anthropology, I've just always been trying to figure out how to create a space for myself adjacent to the interior design niche, which I love so much. And the copywriting bit, fell into my lap accidentally, when I was staying home with two littles and a friend, DM to me and said, Hey, I know you like to write, do you want to write blogs for this new place? I'm working, I had no idea what it was. And I was like, yes, please give me something to do. Um, it turned out it was better one of the gardens, and they were looking for some blog writers. And so I partnered with them for years. And it just kind of occurred to me, interior designers as a whole. And creatives in general don't love to market themselves. They're so good at their craft, they're so good at what they do. And yet there is often a disconnect when it comes to marketing. And I just felt like this was this perfect opportunity to fill this void and really be of service to this niche that I love so much. And also get to like, stay in this field that I've forever been obsessed with and know how to talk about. So it was just this perfect synergy of events and decades kind of all coming, coming together in the perfect way.
Kate Bendewald
Yeah, well, that makes so much sense. And it's interesting. And I forgot you had told me that you you did you do have experience in interior design. And it's interesting how things play out over time. All right, so I want to start by hearing from you. Exactly what is lead magnet and Washington interior design business owner consider having one or their prospective clients.
Katie Boyce
Yeah, so a lead magnet is a word that basically means anything that someone is willing to exchange their email address for. So it is a way you find and attract leads. And you give them this free bit of content or value something in exchange for their email address. So like you said, we've all interacted with these, even if it's something as simple on like a clothing website of like, give me your email address in exchange for 15% off. That is there a type of lead magnet for service providers like us, a lead magnet is typically something like a value add, like you said, a PDF guide, or maybe a gated piece of content, that wouldn't be a blog for everyone to read on your website. But it's like a longer form blog that someone can access in exchange for their email. So it's a way to give some value and provide some intel that people really already want, but getting their email address in the meantime, which is such a powerful marketing tool to have access to people's emails, as opposed to just being beholden to the social media algorithms.
Kate Bendewald
Oh, yeah, I'm glad you mentioned that I want to talk about that. I know personally, from talking to hundreds of interior designers, there's a lot of pressure to get that social media aspect, right, in order to attract new clients. But they struggle to not only create an effective and consistent content, but it feels like yelling into an empty bucket or digital void. And so now I'm not suggesting that people ditch their social media efforts. But can you talk about how having an email list is different and perhaps more valuable than having a huge, say Instagram following? Yeah, absolutely.
Katie Boyce
First of all, I always like to say to clients, I think Instagram is kind of like the bad boyfriend of marketing. Like he's real cute, real fun, pretty sexy, but also, when you really meet him, like, never fails to let you down. You spent hours like creating a real or creating all these posts and put them out there to like, no, like no engagement. And then you're wondering, like, what did I do wrong? You know? So Instagram is such a great, a great way. I always think it's like, Instagram is the way to meet people at a cocktail party, right? Like you get this first interaction with people. There's a lot of ways to leverage Instagram to get your name and your brand in front of people who might not otherwise have heard of you. But the trouble is, those followers don't necessarily translate into paying clients or into actual leads. Because when we're on social media, we're kind of dissociating, we're there to be entertained. We're there to consume. We're not really there to purchase or to engage in a more meaningful way. And not only that, but Instagram. I think I just read the other day that even for big brands with over like 500,000 followers, I think the stats show that maybe 10% of people will see any given post 2% will see any given story 2% So that's a lot of time and energy invested onto a platform that Frank li isn't working very hard for you. And so I agree totally, it's not worth getting rid of Instagram. I think it's incredibly powerful. And also, I think we need to leverage Instagram to bring leads to a place that we can control and that we have more autonomy over and an email list is the perfect way to do that. Because people, people read emails, people, I mean, I think the open rate, the average open rate for an email is more more than 20%. So that's 10 times what an Instagram story is.
Kate Bendewald
That's a wow. Yeah, yeah. Right, because you own your email list, and you have control over it. And then people can opt in and opt out as as they want. And the other thing too, that I don't know if this resonates for others that are listening, but I know I engage with Instagram a lot. You're right. So when I just want to like screw off and like kill a few minutes of my time, or hour, whatever the case may be as if, as if I had an hour to scroll on Instagram, that sounds dreamy. But you're right, we do go there to be entertained. It's not necessarily the first place I go to, say, find a copywriter to say find your designer, however, I use it. A lot of times, if I'm scoping out a brand or company or somebody that I'm interested in engaging with, have already been to their website and have sort of learned a bit about them. And then I'll look for their Instagram icon and and go do a little deeper digging on them and just kind of see what is their personality, like what are they? What are they doing on Instagram. And that's often the place where it'll solidify my decision to engage with them more. So I sort of use it in reverse. And it's not that way for for everybody. But if it's somebody that I'm thinking of hiring or working with. I recently millworker I was looking for a new, fine carpentry find carpenter here in the Denver area. And it started out online, but then I checked out their social media. And that's where I could see, really the craft. And so anyway, the point is, I can see how they can work in tandem. But that is the key difference is that you own your lead net, excuse me, you own your email list. And you don't own anything that you put out on social media, and you have no control over the algorithms and how many people can see your stuff. That's not to say, I'm not here to say you should get your social media, but it's different. It's different. It's two different approaches to your marketing strategy. Okay. So you say that lead magnets are a great way to start. And it's kind of a baby step in to the marketing into your marketing strategy, because it's kind of low cost and low stakes. That makes a lot of sense to me. But can you kind of share with us your opinions and thoughts on what makes a good lead magnet if you're gonna go through this effort of creating one?
Katie Boyce
Yeah, so first of all, the best lead magnet is going to be one that is super hyper tailored not only to you and your business and the services you offer, but to your ideal audience. And so with interior designers, specifically and high ticket service providers, a lot of times the misunderstanding that occurs is they'll say, Well, lead magnets are for DIY errs, they're not attracting my ideal audience, because you're giving them a guide of like how to, you know, top 10 white paint colors, or how to hang a gallery wall or things like that. These are great lead magnets, right? We've we've all like, a ton of people have downloaded things like this. But you're right, that is not the right lead magnet for like a high ticket, interior designer to be creating. So the questions that we need to ask ourselves is first, who is my ideal audience? Who am I really trying to attract and getting super crystal clear about that? Then getting clear about what questions do they have that aren't separate from hiring a service provider, but will instead like remove the barriers that already exist from them hiring you as a service provider? So what questions are they maybe coming to you with in those initial consultations? What hesitations do they have what? What things are going to set you apart and of how you provide the service compared to your competitors, that will resonate with that perfect client for you, and maybe not a not right fit client. So it's a lot of power, if you can wield it well, to identify the people you want to work with, attract those people and bring in the types of projects that you're really going to be excited to see come across to your own inbox.
Kate Bendewald
You just touched on something that I hear a lot that there is this preconception that lead magnets are for di wires, and that's probably because that's the kind of stuff that we've engaged with ourselves. And so that's where that perception comes from. But what you're saying is instead to tailor your lead magnet, specifically to very tailored to your ideal client, and the kind of projects that you want to be working on. And that showcases your expertise and that showcases kind of what sets you apart from your competitors. And what what makes you different? Can you give me an example of maybe a lead magnet that would fall in line with, with what you're talking about?
Katie Boyce
Yeah, absolutely. Um, so, like I mentioned, I think a really key bit of intel gathering is to look at those intake forms from clients you've loved in the past, and what what problems were they bringing to you initially? And What questions did they have? And from that, then creating, I really love like dated content for interior designers. So maybe on a blog, you highlight a project, or on Instagram, you highlight a project, but you probably only show like five, six images, but I guarantee you have what 100 From that photoshoot at least so like, why not go and like deeper into it of like 20 images you didn't get to see from this project plus our thoughts on like, why we've selected a, b and c or like, I think what people really want to know isn't isn't the what of what interior designers do, but the why and how so like if you can kind of tease that. So like another one, like, take a look at past Instagram posts, which ones performed really well and got good engagement? And how can you take that one or two steps farther? So again, if you like, showed a mudroom that was really gorgeous, that people loved what if then you created a PDF guide with a bunch of images on like, our most loved mudroom. Here's seven things you didn't see on the ground or something like that, like that's juicy, I would give you my email address for that. I want to know like what you did. So not only is this showing what you do, and the beautiful things and how, how you're helping your clients, but it's it's specific to you. It's not a DIY tutorial. I mean, they might get inspiration for their own things. But you're positioning yourself as the expert in that instance. And you're making people say not only like, damn, I want that mudroom, but damn, I want them to make that mudroom for me. So yeah, really dig into the why and dig into like how we did this other other things, too, I think, like, don't be afraid to lean into your process a little bit. And these lead magnets, that's a question that that clients are absolutely going to have when they're trying to figure out what interior designer to hire is like, what is their process versus this other person's? Yeah, that answer your question?
Kate Bendewald
Yeah, no, those are great examples. And I think the simpler the better in my opinion. But I do think that the, the idea of a case study is really like what you just described, the mudroom example, is really great, because it's doing two things. One, it's inspiring them, right, it's making them feel the sense of urgency and desire to like create this thing for themselves. To it's displaying your expertise, how you were able to kind of bring this all together. And I think it's okay, if you do agree with me that it's okay to somewhat make. I'm not suggesting that you make your your content, make it feel more complex or unattainable for your clients, it's the opposite of what we're trying to do. But showcasing that, hey, there's so much thought that goes into these spaces, the finished projects finished product looks good, and we make it look easy. But there was a whole lot of thought that went into getting us to where we went to getting us to where we got excuse me, and in. And I have that knowledge and expertise to be able to help you think through all of that for your space. This isn't your space, your your space has different needs different restrictions, different aspects and contexts that are going to make it different. So that showing your expertise piece, I can see how that could be extremely valuable. Absolutely.
Katie Boyce
I think as you were talking, another idea that came to mind was like, you know how we went from the initial mood board to the finish space and showing that again, people love before and afters. But I think what puzzles most people who don't have that designer brain is like, why did they make all these choices? How do they make these choices. And so when you can walk a client through that, you are, again, showing them your expertise, and really leveraging that in a really tangible way. And also helping them to just start to see what could be possible in their own home if they were to work with you, which is really compelling.
Kate Bendewald
Right. Okay, that makes a lot of sense. All right. So and I just I was just reminded i did i do have a podcast episode on this if you're listening and we'll link to it in the show notes, but episode 29 is all about lead magnet ideas for interior designers. So Katie is going to share with us a whole lot more today about the why behind it and kind of what to do next and if you You want some more ideas on how to how to do this and the type of content that works? This episode is going to help you but so episode 29 If you want to go listen to that as well.
Kate Bendewald
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Kate Bendewald
So I want to ask you next, let's say that you have gotten clear on your ideal client, you know who your ideal client is, and you know what their pain points know what they want, right? And you create a lead magnet that is what you feel like, very attractive and very compelling. What's next, because I think that's where the mystery kicks in. And I think that there's a lot of people who the tech piece might be a barrier. But also maybe writing isn't their area of expertise. And actually putting it together that all feels kind of hard. So can you talk about this, you've decided if you're an interior designer, you've decided this is for sure something you want to add to your marketing strategy? What's next, Katie?
Katie Boyce
Yeah, that's such an important question to ask because to simply put a lead magnet out into the world and then just and then just like leave it at that is a huge missed opportunity. Because I think the stats show like people need six to eight interactions with like a brand or an idea before it really sticks and solidifies. And so again, your lead magnet is such a great opportunity to then ensure that they're continuing to see you and get familiar with you and your brand. And that window right after they've downloaded it is the most powerful one, because you have sent them now with a lead magnet, it's almost always delivered in your inbox. So they've already been primed to be excited to see your name pop up in their inbox. So that first like seven to 10 days after that is really, really key. And in the copywriting world, we really encourage what we call a welcome sequence. And so there is this sequence of events that you're doing not only to deliver this guide, or you know, whatever your free lead magnet is, but then also nurturing them from this initial contact point. To familiarize them a little bit more with you and your brand. To show them a little bit more about the work that you do to help them envision how a partnership with you could be additive, to give them a really clear, tangible next step. And to continue to provide value so that you are growing this, we call it the know like and trust factor so that your name is becoming really familiar. It's someone they now recognize it's someone that they like, and it's someone that they're learning to trust. And so a welcome sequence of I would say between five to seven emails that are dripped out over that next seven to 10 days is really really key.
Kate Bendewald
I'm I'm smiling because to me, I'm thinking of the exact same thing that this is how you develop know like and trust with your prospective clients and you can't because what we offer is high ticket, you know, and it is considered a luxury service and it's very unlikely that somebody He is going to invest in someone where they, they, they don't have that. And I know that clients can get that a number of ways, right? They can get it through social media, if you have a presence there. And if you're really talking about yourself and your projects, and you know, making yourself a human, right, talking about all aspects of design in your life, you do it through your website, through your about page is a really great opportunity to build that. But this is just another way to help establish yourself and help them feel like you know them. One person that comes to mind very early on in my business I, everybody knows Emily Henderson, right, because you probably watched design star like I did, she was the first designer. And she had such a great blog, and she put together such great information. And Emily is one of those people that even though I don't follow her as much anymore, I truly felt like I knew her. And like she was a friend because she was so warm. And she was so just open about about, you know, her her process and her projects and her personal life. And so for me, she's a good example, when I think of somebody who, even though I've never met them, she did a really great job, at least for me and sort of putting herself out there in a way that I felt like I knew her. And so that is the goal, right is to help establish a relationship with folks before they ever even get on the phone with you. So okay, so let's say you've got your lead magnet idea. And you know that you need to follow up with a nurture sequence, this is going to involve some writing. And there are, I would say, probably a mixed bag, I've talked about this somewhat with our members inside the program and other designers that I've spoken with. And there are some that love to write, I love to write. But there is a craft and a skill that goes behind this type of copywriting. So this is where somebody needs to decide, is this something that they're going to write themselves? Or are they going to work with somebody like you a copywriter to help put together this nurture sequence and even your lead magnet, the copywriting that goes in there to whether that's something they want to do themselves? And if they're equipped for that? Or is this something that they really need to hire an expert to help them and partner with them to to put all of that together? So how, you know, how would one determine whether this is something they really should hire out? Or do themselves? Can you help us think through that a little bit?
Katie Boyce
Yeah, I think, I think whenever I'm tackling any sort of business project, or next thing, it's really tempting to make the To Do lists, it's like create a lead magnet and act like that's the thing on the to do list. But really, we need to be honest with ourselves and break it down into all the steps like get eyes on every little piece that's going into it, like, we need to come up with the idea for a lead magnet, then we need to write the copy for it. Because if it's a guide, or a gated piece of code, I mean, that's a lot of words, it's a lot of words, then we need to find the images, we need to decide, you know, are we proficient with something like Canva? Where we can create something? You know, I'm not a graphic designer, but I do have enough of an art background that, that I can use Canva? Well, not everyone can. Are we really comfortable? With not only you know, the the strategy of the best ways for these emails to be laid out to be really effective? Is that something that we feel like we have a good handle on? Or not? Do we have the time to write all of these emails or not? There's a lot of things some people can answer yes to the bulk of those questions. And I think there's a lot of power in figuring that out and, and feeling amazing that you accomplished it on your own. And there's also a ton of power and saying Nope, this is would not be a really good use of my time and energy. And if that's the case, partnering with a pro is is a great a great option. And I do have a service. That is exactly this called email list building 101. And it's from everything from taking you from that initial step of I think I need a lead magnet, I don't know what to do to getting one fully crafted, getting that email sequence fully written ready to plug in to a platform like flow desk that would that would automatically send these emails out and then and even the landing page copy to host you need to you need to convince people to download this this lead magnet you can't just build it and expect it right. Yeah, so a lot. Yeah, there's a lot of marketing involved in getting somebody to say yes to a free thing. Ironically, it feels like there shouldn't be but there is.
Kate Bendewald
Yes, exactly. So the landing page copy the lead magnet itself plus the nurture follow up sequence. And not only you know, it's one thing to put it together but it's it's another thing to put it together. and really nail your brand voice really hone in on your client's pain points. And to have them walk away feeling like, Man, I think I think this is my person, I think they're the ones that can can can help me out. You mentioned flow desk. So let's talk about tech for a minute, right. Because if you are going to put together a lead magnet, then you're going to need to invest in an email service provider, your Gmail is not going to work, at least as it stands today, as far as I know, although I think that's, that's something that they're they're building. So an email service provider is a software that collects and stores your email list and the names. And that, and you would send out the emails through that. And there's a whole lot of them out there, you mentioned one, which is flow desk, there's MailChimp, there's ConvertKit, there's even more. Because we're not digital marketers and marketers or online business owners, you know, we're service providers, I think it's worth doing a little bit of research on which one is going to be kind of the easiest to get into because some of them they're very, I my opinion, there, they can create really complex funnels. For people who are digital marketing experts. And I don't, I think that's a little bit more than maybe what we're trying to do as as creative service providers. So I have never used flow desk that sounds like you like that one. I think MailChimp is a pretty easy one to and I even think they have a free one free version up to your first 500 people. So that can be a really nice way to to get started. But anything you want to add to the tech piece around like, thinking through that.
Katie Boyce
Yeah, um, like we were saying, Before we hit record, tech is not my strong suit, I have put off many things that I know I should do for my business simply because the idea of tackling the tech of it made me a little nauseous. So I always feel like people get on these podcasts are like, it's so easy, blah, blah, blah, I'm like, I don't think you know who you're talking to. So, if the tech piece is, is intimidating, I, I promise it can be it can be figured out I mentioned flow desks, that's what I use specifically, and what I know a lot of designers like because they have really pretty templates. And if you wanted to continue to do something like a newsletter, or something where you really wanted a lot of visual components, I do think flow desk does a good job of that. MailChimp, like you said I've heard is super easy, and it is free to start out with. So if you're looking for a super low stakes, low entry point, it'll absolutely get the job done. I think that's a great option for a lot of people who kind of want to dip their toes in with a really low commitment option. There are a bunch of different options out there. Of course, everyone has different opinions about what is best. But I think any any of them will get the job done for you. I think when people start to have really specific ideas, it's because they have these just massive like 40 arm, you know, tentacle funnels of just like different things, which is way more than 99% of interior designers name so I would keep it as simple as you possibly can. And just let it do the work for you. But yeah, these, like you were saying Gmail won't do it. Because the nice thing about these emails is that they are, you set them up once and then they're automatically triggered. So when someone enters on the form on the bottom of your website, or a pop up ad where they enter their name and their email, they automatically go into this funnel where now that first email, they get well to be to deliver this lead magnet to them, the next email will be maybe like a welcome email and they'll just automatically drip every day every other day. Well, however you set it up. So it really is set at once and forget about it and you can personalize them. So their first name is inserted in it feels really warm and cozy. And you're really like you like you said building that kind of best friend vibe with these with these new leads.
Kate Bendewald
Yeah. You made me think of what one question and I know that this is this is what you do. Right? So there's no way we'll be able to get into all of this in depth, but high level, can you kind of share a little bit about what would be included in this nurture sequence that that we get dripped out over time? What what would what would we put in there? Yeah,
Katie Boyce
so like I said, the first email is the one where you deliver the lead magnet that they've opted in for you've promised them this guy, this PDF, this blog, whatever it is, so you're going to deliver that. I always think you want to you want to remind them honestly, some people might have opted in and then not check their email for five days and they might get it and be like, Who is this and what is this? So you want to remind them what it is right? Like thanks so much for signing up to get x you know, here's how it's gonna help you a little like little bullet list of three Three ways to get them excited when they click because you want them not only to opt in, you want them to use it and to see the value, because you're building trust. The next email, I think, is a really good one. In case for whatever reason, they didn't open the first one, or they haven't gotten a chance to go through it again, you, you want them to see the value that you've created for that. So, you know, walk through in a little more depth, what is this guide really good for? What might they have learned from it, tease it a little bit more. And then I always really like to encourage them to reply with a thought. And that second email, it helps deliverability of this because sometimes these automated things can end up in their spam folder. But if someone replies, it's going to come through to your email, and it's going to tell their email service provider that this is not spam, this is something they want to get. But then that's another great way to build relationships. Do you have questions about this lead magnet, hit reply and tell me about it, did this give you a new idea, hit reply and tell me your ideas. It just really builds again, this know like and trust factor. And then it's super important to give a little bit more of an intro in that next in maybe email three, give a little bit more detail about who you are what you do, give it a little link at the bottom to learn even more from your about page on your website, or maybe to follow along on Instagram, give them a job to do. And then in those next few emails, you're kind of encouraging them even a little bit more to consider the value that you bring, you're not looking to sell just yet, but you're giving them a little bit more information and a little more value. So if there's a blog post that people have really enjoyed, or one that you think really highlights the work that you do link that in there and tease that out a little bit like many people who come here are looking for help with updating their primary suite, this is one of my favorite ones, take a peek at the you know, take a peek at this blog post where we where we break down X, Y and Z, make them familiar with your blog. So you're giving them a job with every with every email that you send, and you're helping them to get different aspects, get to know different aspects of you and your business to continue to build that trust. And to get them excited to see your name pop up in their inbox. And then I think by emails, five or six, you can give them a little bit more of a pitch about what you do. Specifically, what types of clients specifically you really like to work with, again, get really, really specific here. And then invite them to book a consultation with you invite them to look at your services page on your website. But I think those are some really key components to a really good welcome sequence.
Kate Bendewald
This is great. So what I'm hearing is it's it's a serve, serve, serve, give, give, give, give give, before you're selling, and that is part of the know, like and trust. Model, which, let's be honest, that's the right thing to do. I mean, yeah, you know, it's good business, too. But you just gave some really great ideas on how you can serve how you can build authority and what it is you do in a way that is very friendly. And it's just by continuing to offer them content that they're going to really enjoy and appreciate getting engaged with. I'm, I'm already hearing questions from designers in my head. And one question I know somebody's going to ask is, well, what if, like, I feel it feels pushy to send five to seven emails over the course of two weeks. And that makes me feel a little nervous, little anxious. Or what if they unsubscribe, you know, so how do you address those hesitations? Yeah,
Katie Boyce
I think a I would, I would first say that unsubscribes are not bad things. If someone is unsubscribing from your email list a they were never gonna buy or partner with you in the first place. So they're not in the right place and that's fine. And B take it personally. Yeah, don't don't ever take it personally honestly, like I the most successful marketers say again and again and again, like every unsubscribe every unfollow is just is great. You're pruning your list to be people who really want to be there. It's I think we're we feel like marketing is salesy is when we're trying to like square peg round hole a situation right? You're trying to like Vince people that they need to work with you. You're trying to like manipulate it in some sort of way. That's really icky. Don't do that. That's why we all think we hate marketing. But the emails that I've gotten that our marketing emails that I love are the ones that really are meeting me where I'm at, and giving me value and service and I look forward to opening those every single day. Right, even though I know it's a it's a link to a blog post. I mean, I'm excited to read that blog post that's gonna be really helpful for me. So yeah, I would just I would encourage, if the if those questions are bubbling up from you, I would encourage you to give them a little bit of a reframe. If If really what you're doing is adding value than the right people are going to be thrilled. And the wrong people will show themselves out. And that's, that's a win win all the way around.
Kate Bendewald
Thank you so much for that, because it's not only helpful for me because I do send out 1000s of emails. And I, you know, we always get unsubscribes. And I always have to remind myself like, that's okay, a healthy list is better than a big list. And I think that's, that's the goal here. And you just really put a finer point on that. Okay, and so, continuing to think about just to wrap this up. So let's say you do this nurture sequence, and you get to that last one, that is a pretty direct call to action book a call with me, let's, let's see what we can do together. What do you recommend doing after that? Let's, in terms of staying connected, is it weekly emails? Is it monthly, quarterly bimonthly? Does it depend on who the designer is? What do you say about continuing to nurture that because my guess is that you might get through that seven day period. And let's say somebody who is interested in your service, maybe they want to do like a major renovation. But they're not quite there yet, right there. This is something maybe they want to wait till their kids get into kindergarten or their kids go off to college, you know, something is happening in their life that's preventing them from getting started yet. Ideally, you want to stay top of mind and stay connected with them over the years, so that not only when they're ready, but if they have a friend who may be looking for a designer, they've got your name, top of mind. Do you have suggestions on how often to stay connected with them? And let's say you're not a blogger, you're not putting out content every single week? Are there some other ways that we can engage with these folks in a way that feels good for us? Like not not pushy? or salesy?
Katie Boyce
Yeah, absolutely. I think I mean, a, yes, this is gonna be work for you, you know, to keep creating this content for your list. So, so consider what work you're really willing to do? Are you truly willing to write a weekly newsletter some people are, they can sit down and like, bang it out in 10 minutes, and it feels good other people. Like don't don't allow a made up pressure to produce content every week to prevent you from doing this, this work, because it's really important for a solid business. So to answer your question, How often should you reach out, I think that's really specific to you and what you want to commit to, I have email lists I'm on where they like clockwork, send an email, every Sunday morning at 10am. I other email lists I'm on where they unapologetically say, I'm going to send you an email when I have something to say. And so sometimes I'll get to in a week, and I won't hear for them for three to four weeks. And that's fine. Because when I do get that email, it's really juicy. And I know that I'm like, excited to open it because they wouldn't have emailed me if they didn't have something good to say. So I think that's another thing. And in one of those last emails you send in that welcome sequence, prep your audience for that, let them know what to expect from you. And maybe in the PS at the bottom of like, I know, you've gotten a lot of emails from me this week, just so you know, hear on out, like, expect to hear from me how often you know, or whenever I have something really juicy to send your way like prime them to get excited for what this is. And then yeah, if you're not a blogger, and you don't have content that really feels like worth sharing, then then don't no one's gonna, no one's gonna like, you know, be upset that they did. Um, but yeah, and as far I mean, these can be so simple if you if you do want to create, you know, like these big fancy flow desk newsletters that have like, seven, you know, categories and all the pictures Great, that's really great. If you don't if you just want to pop in and share three pictures of what we've been up to. And it's a picture from a site visit and a picture from a mood board you've created. Like that alone is great. And again, invite them to engage with you. Ask them to hit reply and ask a question that they have. This is such a great way to nurture an email list. It does not have to be this big like publication worthy endeavor every time like talk to them like you're talking to you're talking to a best friend like one on one you're not creating for a huge list you're creating for your one ideal client avatar, so talk to them that way.
Kate Bendewald
I think that makes so much sense and relieves the pressure of like, having to create perfect content. It's just like you're just sending this to one person. I know when my my email first started to grow and it started out with like 25 people and then it was 100 of them. It was 500 and then it was in the 1000s Like, it was super scary to send those emails. What it was scary whether it was 1000 people 5000 people or five people, but it's not scary anymore. But at first, it was like, how many times? Can you double check your grammar and your spelling and your punctuation before you send it out? And it was like, just send the damn thing. And you know, what? If there's, if there's something, there's a typo of some kind, like, it just shows that you're human, and people are forgiving, and they're graceful. And isn't that the kind of people that you want to work with anybody anyway. And if somebody is going to judge you for a typo, you don't want to work for them anyway. Right? So
Katie Boyce
I think what a nightmare client, they'd be.
Kate Bendewald
Perfect. No, thank you. Well, and I think this comes back to, you know, deciding whether to work with a pro or not to get help with copywriting. Because, let's say that you have decided to Okay, I'm gonna go ahead and I'm gonna do this lead magnet and nurture sequence as my as my marketing strategy, or one of my marketing strategies. What do I need? A copywriter could in theory help you like yourself, come in and write weekly blog post using, you know, you feed the copywriter ideas like, Oh, here's some projects we're working on, here are some new products or design trends, I'm really excited to see or, this is what I did last weekend with my family. There's all kinds of content that can be put together, but then hiring someone to help put that together on a weekly, monthly quarterly basis can be one way for you to outsource that. So there's, there's Wait, my point is, if you're listening, there's ways to do this, where if time is an issue, but you're really trying to get higher quality clients. And by the time they're getting on the phone with you, they already feel like they know you, right? This is a great strategy, but you don't have to do by yourself. You can you can hire someone like Katie to help you. Shame well.
Katie Boyce
I appreciate that very much. Um, yeah, I think I think it's about shifting mindsets in the same way. Like, as a designer, you know, that a client investing in your design services is not an expense, it is an investment, right. And copywriting is the same, it is not an expense into your business, it truly is an investment because that like I mean, even if your email list gives you one lead, right, like one good solid project, that is money well spent. an ROI for email ROI for an email list is the highest of any marketing potential ROI out there. I think that I think the stats are somewhere between like 38 to $40 ROI for every dollar you spend on email marketing, it's it's really lucrative,
Kate Bendewald
that is incredible. Knowing knowing some of those figures, and I do get questions sometimes from designers saying, Should I pay for digital marketing? Should I pay for ads through Google or social media, Instagram, Facebook, that kind of thing? And my answer is always, that should be the very last thing that you do if you are thinking about paid ads, but you aren't crystal freaking clear on your ideal client, you know what kind of projects you want to be doing. You have your minimums established you if you don't have an email list, or a single lead magnet, if you are not active on social media, to me paying for advertising is not only it's almost like a cop out, like I don't want to do these other things to market or promote my business. If you're not going to networking events, whatever, I realized that different people have different marketing strategies that are going to work well for their personality types. For me personally in person networking is something that I loathe. But I will make myself do it when I when I need to. And once I'm there, I'm usually fine. But just getting me there and in the door. For me the hard part. I'm much better with these smaller one on one sort of approaches. But my point is, if you are thinking about spending money on advertising, but you don't have these other basic things in play, you're really going to be wasting your money because again, you're going to be your messaging isn't going to be clear, right? And so start with a lead magnet because that's a much more cost effective way to establish yourself as an expert and really get to know your clients and let them get to know you.
Katie Boyce
Absolutely. Two thoughts that came up for me quick. I agree with everything that you said. As far as paid ads. I think the idea of paying for an ad to promote a high ticket item like interior design, not only because of the price tag, but also interior design is such an intimate profession like Are you seriously going to like entrust your home and all the details of your life with a stranger from the internet like I wouldn't I need to know who this person is before I welcome them into my bedroom and bathroom at you know, like that's a that's, that's that's a no I think if you are interested in paying for ads to expand your reach, I agree kind of a last resort, but then use those ads to promote that lead magnet, so much easier to get people to say yes to a free thing. And then you have them in your list and you can nurture them and see if they're a good fit that way. But yes, to simply use ads to like, try to get clients for a high ticket service like that, I think is such a epic waste of money. And second of all, you mentioned, getting really clear on who your dream client is, this is something that trips up designers a lot, because I think there's a fear of, if I get clear on this person, I'm leaving everyone else out. I'm like accidentally, like turning my back on potential work. And this is something I believe so strongly about this is my lead magnet, it is a dream client guidebook to help interior designers and creative service providers get crystal clear on who that person is, it's the first step that I do with every paid copywriting client. And again, it's not a how to guide necessarily, it's that first step of the process to really help them expand their business in this way and get really clear, because it's the most important you have to know who you're talking to, if you're going to talk to them in a way that is compelling and productive.
Kate Bendewald
I'm so glad you said that. Because I think there's a there's two, I think that's an easy one for early designers. They're like, oh, I need to figure this out. Right. And but a lot of times early in your career that can be that person that persona, it can be vague until you've had experience. And the thing I always remind designers is that your ideal client is continually evolving over time as you evolve and as you grow. And so it's something that you consistently need to be revisiting. So even if it's something you think, you know, you got to you got to check that every now and then and see if your marketing language and your brand messaging is speaking to them and looking at your lead magnet, your web, copy your social media, copy all the things. And I do want to just make one clarification, I'm not about paying for ads, I'm not suggesting that there's no place for paid ads, it is an interior designer, I'm just saying that. That should not be your first, your first approach that there's so many other free and low ticket ways to market yourself that doesn't require a ton of money, and is actually way more effective. So I didn't want to I don't want to I don't want to throw stones at ads, because I think there is a place for him. But it's definitely a last resort. If you're not out there talking about what you do, whether that's in person or online. You got to you got to start there unless you just have tons of money to throw out. Which I'm guessing we don't you know. Katie, it has been a pleasure speaking with you today, I know that you are so passionate about the interior designers that you work with and helping them level up their business and really hone in their unique brand voice. I know, talking to so many designers, a lot of times it can feel hard to differentiate ourselves and what we do from the designer next door. As and we know this is a really growing market that the competition between designers is increased because there's more designers today than there were four or five years ago. And you know, so getting that brand messaging is so important. So we're really grateful to have you in this space. I want to let folks know, definitely go sign up for her our lead magnet on brand messaging, what is the name of it again? And we'll be sure to link to it in the show notes.
Katie Boyce
Yeah, it's the dream client guidebook. And it's a PDF 14 pages I think of the questions that I ask with the clients that I work with on my brand messaging VIP weeks, because that is like the foundation of what we do. And if you download it, you can then get my whole welcome sequence and see exactly the steps like we talked about earlier in the show, like what what email should be included and what should be included in each one. So go ahead and just steal that for your swipe copy.
Kate Bendewald
I love that because for me seeing examples is super helpful. And I'm always taking screenshots of like, oh, this is a really great like graphic or this is a really great way they put this together. So why not also get an example of how these would work. But yeah, so if if folks want to find you they can not only find you on your website, which is Katie voice copy.com but also where are you on Instagram?
Katie Boyce
I'm at Katie voice rates on Instagram.
Kate Bendewald
Excellent. I will make sure to link to all of these in the show notes. Katie, thank you so much for your time today. It's been a pleasure chatting with you.
Katie Boyce
Thank you so much. I loved it.
Kate Bendewald
All right bye for now.
Kate Bendewald
Thank you so much for letting me spend part of this day with you If you're loving this podcast, please share it with a friend who you think might also love it. Or perhaps you can take just 30 seconds to open your podcast app and leave us a five star rating. And if you have just an extra minute, go ahead and leave a review. This helps me so much and it helps other designers like you to find the podcast. It also adds fuel to my motivation to keep making great episodes just for you. However you choose to help, please No, I appreciate you so very much. Thank you, my friend. Have a wonderful rest of your day and I'll see you next time.
