# 93 | The Risk-Averse Guide to Switching to an Interior Design Career with Rasheeda Gray

Welcome to the Designers Oasis podcast. I'm your host, Kate Bendewald. If you're tired of one-size-fits-all all advice to running your interior design business, you're in the right place. Join me each week as we dive into topics to help you run a thriving interior design business. Without the hustle. We'll talk about the business of design, but also mindset and mental health because I know when you thrive, so will your life and business. It wasn't that long ago that I stepped away from my corporate interior design job to build my own design business so that I could realize my own creative dreams, have more time with the people I love, and serve my clients at the highest level, while making more money than I ever could have working for someone else. It wasn't always easy, and I made my share of mistakes along the way. Fast forward to today. And I've learned a thing or two. Since then I've built multiple six-figure interior design businesses on authentic word-of-mouth referrals with many repeat clients. And I want to share it all with you the ambitious, inspired, and I get it occasionally overwhelmed interior designer who shares this dream of transforming lives through the art of interior design, You can do this. Thank you for letting me spend part of this day with you. Let's get to it.

Kate Bendewald

Today, my guest is Rashida gray of gray space interiors, an award winning residential and commercial interior design firm based in the Philadelphia area. Rashida firm has been named the best design firm in Montgomery County and house beautifuls Next Wave design firm. She is a proud woman owned and Minority Business Enterprise certified firm. Rasheeda design journey began after a decade long C suite career in corporate marketing. Today we're talking about how the road to pivot from marketing career to design was a long one, but the one she needed in order to make the leap. We're also going to talk about hiring and how she has grown a well rounded team that supports her. I also asked Rashida about knowing when to say yes to opportunities and when to pass. And finally, I talked to Rashida about the progress that we have made in the interior design industry to elevate black designers, I wanted to find out if she is feeling hopeful about the direction we're headed in terms of giving black designers the presence they deserve. Please welcome Rashida gray to the podcast. Good afternoon, Rashida. Hi, welcome to the designers Oasis podcast. How are you today?

Rasheeda Gray

I'm great. How are you?

Kate Bendewald

I am better now that I'm hanging out with you and getting to chat again. We met at high point this year. You led our insiders tour, because I have been to the Vegas market before, but I had never gone to high point, and I knew that the insiders tour was going to be so helpful, but I really underestimated what a great experience I would have with you being our leader that day. You were amazing.

Rasheeda Gray

Thank you so much. It's always a little nerve wracking to lead your peers in such a way, and so I was happy that everyone had a great time. That was my goal, great time and inform, informative. So yeah, thank you.

Kate Bendewald

It's so funny. I often get very nervous when I'm leading things myself. And the reality is nobody can tell nobody could ever know you. You felt like such a natural and such a pro. And I think taking the time out of your own market to be a leader and to be a guide for designers who have never been to market, I think it's such a gift of your time. I'm going to just jump right in here with some questions. What? Why have you chosen to do those insider tours at High Point?

Rasheeda Gray

Wow, that's a loaded question. Um, you know, I think you know, I remember my first time at High Point market, which at this point was about eight years ago, and I remember, actually. Mean the blessing of having someone hold my hand through high point market. So I had a mentor at the time, and her name is Cheryl Luckett. May have heard of her, maybe not. So Cheryl, before I got started in the industry, I reached out to her to connect and the mentor mentee relationship. And so that evolved, and we got to meet in person during my first market, and without someone to sort of hold your hand and say, This is what you should consider going to this is who you should meet. These are the vendors that are really Designer Friendly, that you can start out with all of those things, because it's massive, and there's just so much to do, and if I would have a pseudo plan, at least, you could get lost and sort of waste time. So I wanted to be able to reciprocate that in a major way, until that's these insider tours. Hotspot tours are a great way for me to reach multiple people and return that same, you know, lend of hand that was given to me to someone else. So, yeah, oh,

Kate Bendewald

well, you know, we all need mentors, and I love that you're this. This is truly for you. I think it sounds like an act of service to give back to the design community, and we couldn't be more grateful for it. Well, thank you. Yeah, and it's such a great group, too. We had a little text group, and we all have been staying connected, and it was really fun to meet all of the others as well. So just a quick shout out to anybody who has either not gone to high point or you haven't gone on a tour through high point. I highly, highly recommend the hot spot tours and look and see if Rashida is doing it again, because she's an excellent, excellent guide. She you'll have, you'll learn a ton, but you're going to have fun along the way.

Rasheeda Gray

Yes, we had the experience, and that was great. Yeah, I

Kate Bendewald

always feel so spoiled. And there's, well, it's true high point, and that's honestly why I hadn't gone. I have like, Major, like issues with crowds, and I always heard about and it's actually not that crowded. It is huge. But it was the scale of it that kept me away for so long, and because I had been to Vegas, and I was like, I I've got vendors, you know, but it's so good to go. And it really wasn't nearly as bad as I made it out to be, especially with my fearless leader,

Rasheeda Gray

yes, you did it the right way for sure. God,

Kate Bendewald

yeah, I feel, I feel so much more equipped to go back on my own in the future, which we'll sure be doing. Yeah, wonderful. Well, Rashida, I'm so excited to have you here and to share you with our audience. So you are the founder and CEO of gray space interiors. You are based in Pennsylvania, out of Elkins Park. You do full service residential? Do you is it just residential? Or do you dabble with commercial?

Rasheeda Gray

Residential? We dabble in small commercial? Yes, got

Kate Bendewald

it. I understand it is a bit of a different animal. So depending on the project, some, sometimes it makes sense to cross over, and sometimes not so. And you also work hand in hand at times with your husband, who is a general contractor. Is that correct?

Rasheeda Gray

Yes.

Kate Bendewald

So I want us to take a step back first, and I'd love to hear a little bit about your journey. Prior to launching your interior design firm, you were working in corporate marketing, and I would love for you to give us a little bit more insight into the exact kind of work you were doing there. And when did this aha moment happened for you where you realized, I think I'm supposed to be doing this other thing, which you have clearly crossed over into and are thriving at. But I want to go back to those early days of when you were in corporate marketing. What were you doing and how did this idea start to generate for you?

Rasheeda Gray

Yeah, well, my journey, I think it could be relatable to a few other folks that are listening. So I have an undergrad degree in marketing and a master's degree in business at MBA, and wanted to be a marketer for the largest fashion house in the world, like I just that was my dream in college, and so I graduated. I did not get a job with a fashion house, but I did get a job with insurance companies. And so that was that was a result of me working with insurance companies. Part time in high school, like a local insurance agent's office. So I had that, like admin experience in the insurance industry, and so when I graduated, that was like the first opportunity that came about. So I've worked for companies like Progressive Insurance, State Farm Insurance for many years, for six years, and then chub insurance for seven years, and I held positions in planes, originally totally not marketing related, and then evolved into marketing, both like on the analytics side and the research side, as well as brand campaigns. And then my last role was in business development and marketing, as an Assistant Vice President for one of the subsidiaries of Chubb insurance. So I around the block in the marketing insurance industry. I spent about 15 years total in that world, before the light bulb went off, and I decided to become a volunteer designer. So how that happened was, you know, you climb the corporate ladder, and as you sort of have promotions, and you know, all the things that are on your checklist, like a corporation that is local, and I can grow locally and become promoted, and there's opportunity, and the finances are there, those things start to happen. You start to say, well, it doesn't feel the way I thought it would feel once I got there. It feels like, and so it feels like maybe there isn't purpose connected to work. And so in my early 30s, these thoughts started to happen. And I said, What do you love to do for free? I think I might have heard a podcast or took a course, and that was one of the questions that came out of it. And I was like, I decorate my home over and over and over again. And so I said, Well, decorating your own home and running the design firm are two different things, and I ought to be sure that this is something that I want to do. And so I went back to school for a six month program at Temple University for interior design, just to make sure, one, that I understood the industry outside of what's on television, and two, have the knowledge that would help me to succeed if I decided to open a firm. And so I did that, and about one month before completing the program, I got my first client, and that person was a friend of a friend, and I said, Well, I guess I should start a website and solidify a name and register the business as a legal corporation, and all those things sort of happened within the first month or so of getting my first client so

Kate Bendewald

that it was, that's a fast track. Very fast.

Rasheeda Gray

It was like, I'm thinking about it. I love to do it in my own home. And then it was like, Okay, here's a potential opportunity. And they were for an amateur designer. Like, how great is that? Because that's exactly what I was. And so fast forward, that was 200 I don't know the exact number now, but over 200 projects ago, and I did both my corporate career and building gray space, my design firm for three years, and then I had to make a decision as a and all the other things that are outside of work, I had to make the jump. And so after saving and planning, I decided to walk away. And so it's been five years full time as a designer, eight years total. Wow,

Kate Bendewald

you ran both. You did both for three years. I just want to highlight that because I know how hard that is. I designers Oasis and Kate bendewald Interior Design ran parallel to each other for about a year, and I loved it, and I just about died it was running the interior design firm and doing any literally anything else is no joke, and I cannot believe that you did that for three years. So how I'm like, I have so many questions, how, how were you able to take it that long? Did you have support within the design, business side of things? I mean, because you're. Job at the insurance company you were assistant vice president to. I mean, that's not an you were not in claims anymore, friend,

Rasheeda Gray

visible, very no shame

Kate Bendewald

to the folks in claims. But that is a that is a that is a very big job with a lot of responsibility. So how did you manage that? I'm sure, imperfectly, but you did it nonetheless. How were you able to to carry both of those for that season, for such a long season,

Rasheeda Gray

it was challenging. I mean, I literally would work, you know, you're nine to five or eight to five, and then I would, you know, come home, maybe have dinner, do homework with the kids. And at the time, they were younger, my children are 18 and 13 now, but eight years ago, they were five and 10, so little, and we had all that activity, so I would work until the wee hours, hours of the morning, like 1am, 2am I would do my five, and then my five, no, then my nine to one. That's, that's how I worked. And so, as you can imagine, that's not really sustainable. I mean, thank goodness my husband, he's an entrepreneur, and has been for 13 years, and so he was super supportive during that time. And for me, I'm just not a big risk taker, and so I wanted to make sure that we had savings and that I had a solid book within the design firm, like a proven concept before jumping. And, you know, it got to a point where I had to, you know, I was on flea market flip and a few other television opportunities, and I started to have to decline opportunities because I should have been working. It does help that I did have a flexible schedule in my full time job. So I did work from home a few days a week, which is super helpful. Yeah,

Kate Bendewald

I think with this highlights, hearing you talk about, I mean, first of all, you said to yourself, I want to try this out, but I'm going to get some reassurance. I'm going to see what it's all about first, before I really dive in. And then the universe was like a Yeah, girl, here we go. Here's a client, here's your here's the next opportunity, and it's like no turning back sets. So there's probably some of the biggest validation that folks look for right there,

Rasheeda Gray

exactly. And I will say, you know, I started off small, like my first was one bedroom. My second client was like two rooms. And so I had the I am grateful that I got to do both for three years, although I was exhausted, because I had the opportunity to fail and not, like, totally dismantle the design firm. I still have a corporate salary, and that was like my first investor into my business. And I got a chance to hire. I didn't have help, um, so I opened my doors in 2016 I had my first hire in 2018 early 2018 I wasn't, yeah, 2018 um, so I thought I have my corporate salary, so I'm going to use any funds earned by the business to put back into the business, and I made my first hire, which was basically a project manager at the time.

Kate Bendewald

Well, yeah, so you were the first investor, because that was you doing all of that work, and that is some serious sweat equity. Sure? What I want to point out to our listeners, though, because we've had this conversation many times on this podcast is, you know, this, many of my listeners are in their second, if not third, career, and there is always this period of time where there's some crossover in this, this murky transitional period of moving from whatever it was you're doing into this World. And you know, I get a lot of questions, especially inside the either on social media or inside the interior designers business blueprint or program, where people want me to tell them, what do I need to have in place in order to make this leap? And as much as I would love to be able to answer that question, the reality is, it comes down to you and what your comfort level is, because here I'm talking with you Rashida, who, of course, she worked in insurance, your risk tolerance was is fairly low. And I think that there's wisdom to that, and there's security in that, and that's a wise way to go. And I've talked to other designers on here who, you know, really have a much higher risk tolerance than others. I'm probably somewhere in the middle. I work. I make a lot of decisions on intuition as well as facts and data. And so it's a blend, a hybrid. But. I i don't have there is no right answer. And I think it's really important that designers hear from you that if they're like you in their their risk tolerance is lower, or their risk averse, there's absolutely nothing wrong with that, but that this is an example of somebody who's willing to hustle on the weekends and at night and get it to a place where you do feel like, okay, I think I'm I'm ready to do this. So I just appreciate you sharing that, that side of things. Yep,

Rasheeda Gray

absolutely. You know, of course, I had my spouse and partner to sort of support when needed, but we are both entrepreneurs, and so joy of being an entrepreneur, and there isn't guarantees, honestly, there isn't guarantees with anything. So yeah, I almost got forced out, like I I was, I was supposed to be two years, and then I was like, No, I'm not ready yet. And then just a quick note on something you brought up, of course, there's the finances, and everybody's number is different on what they need to have and but I also hired a business coach before I did the transition, because I wanted to know as much about the industry as possible. I wasn't transitioning to the industry to work for someone else, so there's just like that, the unknown of never working in the design firm. So they help with that, but they also helped with visibility and mindset, which is very interesting, and it's a big part, especially as a designer who doesn't necessarily know a luxury world, or doesn't know of interior design outside of you know as an adult, uncovering that it's something that I'm passionate about. And so sometimes your money mindset, as an example, could get in the way of how you operate with clients. And so anyways, I did those things. I called a mentor, I had a business coach, I saved my money, and I had a lot of talks with my family about what I thought I was gonna go undergo. So

Kate Bendewald

right, so it's, it sounds to me that you want to underscore, and I think it's really important to do this, underscore that it's not like you were just working both jobs and just hustling. You were also taking the time to educate yourself on the industry, to get right with your mindset. You were investing in your business by hiring a mentor. You were also looking at the dollars and cents of it, and having really important conversations with your family, and those were the things that you needed in that time to get you prepared to to to be on this on your own. I think it's also important that you point out that, like nothing's guaranteed, so it's it's not like you could do all of these things, but if you jump ship from your job, and then you go and you are not supporting your clients the way that they would expect, and, you know, like that, could all crumble if you're so it's, it's important that it's all of these things together over time.

Rasheeda Gray

I There's one big lesson in that transition that I want to Miss, please people. I think we don't talk often enough about working for someone else versus working for yourself, and what that terms of time management and understanding what activities you have to do versus what you want to do. And so I had to adjust to the fact that there wasn't someone who would say, here is your priority project for the week, or this is what our company's goals are, and this is how you're supposed to support them. It was more less of that and more of now me becoming the person that says, Okay, what's a revenue generating activity like? And I am, I don't know. Maybe I'm a true creative and that way there's, it's very easy to get distracted by all the shiny things, right? That are in our industry, and so time management was a big deal. I was like, Oh, I'm an entrepreneur. I can make my own schedule. No, I'm going to work less. I'm going to work less than I did when I had two jobs. And honestly, it's about Hussein, because I'm building my baby from scratch, and so I'm giving it my all. So yeah, that was a big adjustment. And I read a book called The E Myth, which is a super popular book, I think. Yeah. So I love that book because it helped me to understand. And I need to be more of the CEO, the leader, the as opposed to the technician that's doing the work in the mid level manager that's managing the work. So sure, when I'm hiring and thinking about what's necessary for the company, I always go back to my role as CEO, and then support that with what I do with the business. So yeah, yeah,

Kate Bendewald

it's a process to switch to, because we can get so ingrained in these habits of what we think we need to be doing and having our fingers and all the things. And sometimes I did this earlier today, I caught myself going down a rabbit hole, and it was like, What am I doing? I don't need to do this. I have people that work for me that do this, that can do it better and faster. Also, there's a speaking of great books I'm looking over my shoulder. Hold on, yeah. Oh my gosh. Rework is a really good book that I'm looking at, there's, it's, it's Mike McCalla. It's book on time management. And I'm totally spacing on the name of it, but I'll find it and I'll link it in the show notes, unless you know, you can tell me, but he talks about the queen bee role and identify the

Rasheeda Gray

what, probably not audible. I'm looking at my audible. So yeah, do

Kate Bendewald

it. I'm gonna have to find it too, because we have to be able to identify what those specific queen bee roles are, and then everyone else in the hive is there to support those roles. And to me, that was a tough switch early on, because, well, it can be hard to think, you know, little old me, I'm the boss who made me boss. And then one day you look around, you're like, No, actually, you are the one that created and built this whole thing, and you do have the ability to say yay or NATO to whatever. So I think that's an important lesson too, especially for early designers, to go ahead and put your shoulders back and step into that, that role as the CEO. Well, for sure, by protecting your time well, this is actually a nice segue into one of my questions for you. I know that you are one busy lady. You have so many things going on besides just your I couldn't even list them all. But besides your design business, you're a mom, you have some collabs on the horizon. I understand you've done lots of media and TV appearances in the past. So when you've got two young kids at home, well, they're not that young anymore, but they're they're still your babies, right? When you have, when you have a schedule like you have, you understand clearly the importance that you can't say yes to all the things. So what are your filters for you? How do you run that through your filter and decide what to say yes to and what to say no to?

Rasheeda Gray

Good question. I by default, this is vulnerable, but can be a people person, people pleasing person. So I can be a people pleaser, and so I do have to have a filter, or else I will burn myself out, and I first say to myself, will I enjoy the experience? Will I enjoy whatever it is, let's just say podcast. I, you know, I met Kate in person, and we had great chemistry. And I was like, Oh, I can't wait to talk to her. Now, if I am going, I just want to make that's, you know, one of the things about corporate is you have less control over that, like what you say yes to, and as a business owner, I was like, This is why I am a business owner. I have the freedom to decide, and so I am creating my business and what I want for my life. So that's the first part. Second part is, is it worth the time? Like financial or long term strategy. Is it worth the time? And so if I'm thinking about a brand partnership, is it a brand that would be relatable to my audience, that could be helpful to my audience? Is it a brand that I can grow with same thing television. So I think those are my first two lenses, enjoyment and just kind of worth my time and effort, right? And then intuition. That's it. Intuition.

Kate Bendewald

That's a big one too. Yeah. So it's like, first of all, it's gotta be fun. Some. Thing that's going to light you up and fill you up, especially creatively, and is it going to bring value to you and to your audience, both in the short term and long term? I think those are really great filters to use for decision making.

Rasheeda Gray

Is Fun like not every project is promised to be fun time project, but is it the second thing, like, is it going to support my long term or financial goals? So, yeah, just kind of go through that checklist.

Kate Bendewald

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Kate Bendewald

was just having this conversation with someone the other day about taking on a specific project. And it's, you know what it was. It was Dan mazzarini I was having this conversation with, and it's like, you know, when you get these projects that come in the door, not every project that comes through the door is going to check all the boxes. There are going to be projects that come through that are, ooh, this is a really tight timeline. Normally, I wouldn't want that, but this is a client connection that can open up a whole new world for me. So there's a lot of potential there. Or, gosh, this project doesn't have the budget that I would really hope to have, but man, is it going to be fun, and so if it checks most of the boxes, then you can make a decision off of that. So I think it's, it's really important to really give thought to the things that you say yes and no to and your filters are, I think, good ones for us to all listen to. So I want to go back to you working with your husband. First of all, what's his name?

Rasheeda Gray

Jake. His name is Jake. Jake and Rashida.

Kate Bendewald

How cute. And I love this. And your companies are completely separate. It's not a design build company. Is that right? Yes,

Rasheeda Gray

it is, right. Now the idea of design build, but longer conversation,

Kate Bendewald

yeah, sure. I'm sure there's a lot of thought that goes into something like that. So do you bring him in on every project, or just some of them, or does it depend how does, how do you guys work that

Rasheeda Gray

out? So our design firm right now, I would say it's probably 60% renovation and then 40% furnishing only, or new builds projects. So with the renovation projects we do give, we do recommend him to our clients, his team, and of course, our work together and our portfolio together supports that a client, the first one this year. But there may be a client from time to time that either has a contractor that they've worked with for years and they trust and they know, and so I have worked with projects that did not opt to use their general contracting business, but for the most part, most of our projects together are most of my renovation projects are projects that we do together. So,

Kate Bendewald

so how do you guys separate the work and the business? Or do you because how do you strike that balance between having meaningful conversations as partners? Um. In life, but then also in business,

Rasheeda Gray

it's hard. There isn't, like, a black and white answer to it. I mean, we both love what we do, and so you know, when you love something, you want to talk about it. And just if we didn't work together, generally speaking, a husband and wife would say, like, how's your day? How's your day. This is what happened. So we do all some of it. There are times when we're both allowed to say, hey, let's stop talking about work or talking about the kids. Yeah. So there is a balance. We do have weekly meetings where that is the opportunity outside of the office to talk about anything work related, because we have a team. And so there may be times where we need to have like, higher level discussions, like about the design build and what happens there all that. So we have weekly meetings outside of the office to help support that, and we try to make fun with, like, a glass of wine and, you know, that kind of thing. But, yeah, that it's, it's a fine, delicate balance. But sure, we've been working together now for five years officially, so we kind of have a rhythm going. The other trick is, I try not to talk to him about projects that much. My team is his direct point of contact, so either a junior designer or our operations specialist that does ordering and administrative work, that is who his team goes to first before he comes to me. So I love

Kate Bendewald

that. I think you're like, I don't know, go talk to my assistant.

Rasheeda Gray

Yes, I am a different woman at work, and I am just kind of like, you know that, and I don't want to always bring that energy to communicating with him, whether it's about work or Not. So I

Kate Bendewald

think that's actually incredibly Smart to the

Kate Bendewald

I do it so that you're not, you know, making coffee. And she's being like, oh, yeah, did you get that thing done? I asked you to do, you know, you've got that

Rasheeda Gray

that does time to time, I'm sure.

Kate Bendewald

But imagine if you didn't have that structured time, or you didn't have those team members to support you, how much more of that would happen. So I'm I am certain that those conversations do happen from time to time. Speaking of a team, I want to ask you about growing a team. This is something you know a lot about, because you hired before you even had left your full time job, and I understand that that first hire might Is she still with you today?

Rasheeda Gray

No, she's not. I had my first hire in 2018 and she stayed with us until 2022,

Kate Bendewald

so four years, she stayed with me. Very long time, though, there was

Rasheeda Gray

so much change in those four years so to be all gone for the ride. So tell me

Kate Bendewald

about you, who you have working for you now, who's supporting you, and how does that work in your firm?

Rasheeda Gray

Yeah, so we have an employee who's operation specialist, and so her role is to with the office manager, but also procurement manager, and then, you know, all the administrative tasks like email, management, client, communication, tracking, orders, receive, warehouse, liaison, you name it, all things admin, she does. I said there's

Kate Bendewald

one. If there's one person I have in my business at all times, it's that person. Yep, Mark.

Rasheeda Gray

I always tell car when she's the glue that keeps this. This all together. So good. So that's Megan. She's been with us for two years now. And then we have two junior designers. So one is virtual, and then one is here locally. The one that is virtual is like kind of part time. They're both on a what do we call those contractor contract so employees and they take projects on themselves. They assist me in projects. And the person that's local, she does project management work too, so she goes on site to projects and and that's who my husband, Jake talked to when there's a question.

Kate Bendewald

I love that it sounds like a really well rounded team to support. Yeah, I

Rasheeda Gray

have to remind myself, because just like you mentioned earlier, it's easy for me to say, I'll quickly do this, and then I'm like, no, no, no, your role is marketing. Like, like, making it rain, like bringing in a business, then our business development and or, and then your role is also, you know, principal designer, so lead creative in the firm. So anything that's outside of that, I have to remind myself that you can delegate. And that is even, you know, eight years later, it's still a challenge,

Kate Bendewald

right? Yeah, it's a, it's, it's an ongoing learning experience, for sure, but you get better at it, and you clearly, you clearly are, otherwise you wouldn't be where you are today. Thank you. So I want to, I want to turn the conversation a little bit, um, as we're talking about working with your husband, growing this firm. You're the Rainmaker, the chief Rainmaker, which is a lot of pressure, you know, too. I very much understand that that sort of never goes away, unless you get to a point where you're actually hiring a marketing manager. But for me and my audience, one of the things I really love to talk about is defining success on your terms. Success is a loaded word, and I think it means a lot of different things to different people, and a lot of times our you know, when we think about success, and I'm using air quotes here, one of our first sort of knee jerks reaction. Knee jerk reactions is that that is, you know, how much, how much money can you make, right? That that's that. That's your, your only metric for success is, you know, your your revenue, or your profit, or whatever. But here we like to talk about a lot of different metrics for success. You know, whether that's having a certain amount of time off to spend with your family or to be available for them, or getting fresh or whatever. So for Rashida Gray, I want to know what are some of the things that you have defined, either formally or just in your head, as these are the things that will help me feel like I'm doing a good job, and I'm I'm where I'm supposed to be. So some of those success metrics for you. Can you share just one or two if you've got I know I'm kind of putting you on the spot here.

Rasheeda Gray

I have two that are very much top of mind, and I have a third that I'm brewing, but I can't figure out the words and saying it, um, but for two, um, freedom. They're both around the word freedom. So for me, that is freedom of time and freedom of finances, money, I guess, just the ability to create the life that I want for myself and my family. Of course, there's nothing perfect to that, but there is a perfect way to do it. But I just think being able to say, you know, yesterday was our daughter's move up ceremony from eighth grade to high school, and I was sitting around my mom and my mother in law and our children and my husband, I was like, I'm so grateful that I have a job where I can easily take off when necessary. So, you know, I just think freedom is more important than any amount of money, but money to live. So everyone's finances is important too. The other thing that I'm trying to put like a word or say, I can't come up words, but it is knowing that the work that I do impacts our clients lives in the way I felt like this is Missionary like missionary work for me that this is what I'm supposed to be doing. And the work that we do as designers really impacts the way that someone lives in their life as a whole. So knowing and hearing and seeing when the project is. Build that impact with our clients. Yeah, it's me back up every single time, because being an entrepreneur sucks. Sometimes, being able to impact the lives of others in a way that I love, like, it's like, I love to do this and it helps someone. Yeah, can't be Yeah,

Kate Bendewald

yeah. I mean, I hear you saying, first of all, you get at a core level, like it's that fire in your belly, kind of way you understand the impact of design and how it can improve people's lives, and knowing that that is your tool, that is your craft, that is your magic, and you're able to bring that to the table and help people have a more fulfilling life at home. And I think clients, I don't know if you find this to be true or not, but I have found clients underestimate the impact that doing these changes will have on their lives. And in the end, they are, they're really moved by what you know, what, what the work has been able to do for them, just moving about your home and feeling feeling excited or calm or safe or secure or inspired, or whatever. You know, I you get that and it and I hear you and your voice saying, I want to do that for more people and not bringing joy. Yep,

Rasheeda Gray

I think the awareness of that has increased since the pandemic, for sure, with clients like, yeah, they now realize how important your home is. So yeah, that's a small part of that.

Kate Bendewald

Yeah, wonderful. Kind of on that topic, I want to talk to you about your work in this industry. As a black woman, you and I both know that this industry has had a diversity problem for many, many years. We've seen decades of media showcasing a lot of white designers with white clients, House Beautiful had an article a number of years ago. I remember it pointed out the irony that a lot of them have showcased design elements and patterns taken directly from black culture. So the problem with that has been that it leaves a lot of black all black designers harder. It's harder work to get the same recognition as their white counterparts. I personally feel hopeful, because in the last five to 10 years, I mean, first of all, we see organizations like the black interior designers network that is doing incredible work to elevate the black designers that this community really needs. I think about some of the hottest voices in design are Corey, Damon, Jenkins, Sheila bridges, the Harlem 12 girl Bridget romanak, so my question to you, I mean, you and I both know there's still so much work to be done, but just thinking about our industry, when you look at where we've come just in the last couple of years in terms of elevating black voices, black designers, are you hopeful about where we're going In terms of giving black designers the presence that they truly deserve?

Rasheeda Gray

Yeah, I would say that's a very loaded, loaded question. I am hopeful. I have seen a great deal of progress over the last year, last few years, so I would agree with you and that aspect, I think, you know, as a black designer, and as a black person and as a black woman, I all feel this weight of I have to work twice as hard for the same result, and so That has not shifted. Still feels like it's there, but there has been a ton of progress, especially in 2020 when we all got to see when we were in our homes firsthand, because of technology, the brutality that exists in our world because of race and so I think that there was some progress heightened at that time, and maybe 21 and 22 but it seems to have, like it seems to have dwindled a bit. And so, you know, there were brands that had furniture collections curated by black designers, and that was amazing, but I haven't seen much of that since. So things like that, I think I would prefer that we are consistent as an industry, but on the other side of that, we have things like the diversity Alliance at High Point market that is fairly new. And it's and so I think there is progress, but I agree that there is just still so much more work to do on the level of our industry, and even on an industry wide like television awareness level, and that's television is so important to me. Yeah, so I have pursued television and been given opportunities over the last eight years or so, and it started with a DM in my inbox on Instagram about flea market flip. And I was like, Oh, I don't know. I don't know. And I said, Yes, and I'm glad I did. I was not thinking about television, but once the opportunity and I saw the impact that it had, there were people that I never met that said, you know, thank you for your representation, and thank you for you know, you do great work, and thank you for just exposing that kind of exposure and that awareness. Yeah, and so that is one reason why television is important to me, because I went to I I've always been a creative and I went to school for marketing because I thought my parents are sending me to college first, in my family to go to a four year college, so I need to make sure that I have a degree that's going to make some money. Um, so that worth the investment and time that my family poured into me. And so what is creative and what's going to make money? Okay, marketing. Sure that works like and said, I'll be Mr. What I didn't know is that interior design was a career, that it was a business, that I didn't see myself in interior design space. And so my hope is that myself and other black designers who are on the television stage or any other large branding opportunity are able to be an inspiration to children, even on the local level, I find myself wanting to be a part of career days or any design education opportunity to be sort of voice for the black community in the design space. So lots of work to do, but I'm hopeful, and I think we're moving in the right direction.

Kate Bendewald

Yeah, well, I can't thank you enough for sharing that perspective with us and with me, and I think it's what I'm hearing is yes, the it's hopeful we're headed in the right direction. Still work to do consistency would be better. And not just this cultural response to what's happening in the headlines, but more of the obvious first choice, right? Because there's, there's so much talent in the black design community and deserves more than anybody, any to be able to showcase their work. I'm like you, I feel like I got really lucky learning that interior design was a career at the time that I learned about it, because the first, the moment, the second I knew I learned that this was a career, I was like, I'm done. I know what I'm doing with my life, and I had never been so certain of anything ever before that. And so I do have a fire in my belly to go and talk. In fact, I'm working on a little side project, but nothing's come to fruition yet, but I want to get in front of middle school and high school kids to share with them about this career, because I think, first of all, it's, it's incredibly creative, but there's so much math, science and technology that we utilize every single day, and I really want to instill in them the importance of, you know, stay focused on those aspects of your career, even if you identify as a creative person, because they're going to that that knowledge is only going to support you. So I'm hoping I can. I'm trying to work out some sort of a class for teens in this area, because I think it's such a cool career. I'm so excited. I love what we do, so I appreciate you. Don't you're right, though, but young black men and women need that representation to show this is not just a white person's career. There are very successful black designers out there, and here are just a couple of names. So I I'm so grateful that you're a part of that representation.

Rasheeda Gray

Thank you.

Kate Bendewald

It's not easy to have these conversations. Rashida, I will be honest. As a privileged white woman, I so I appreciate you. You know, just being honest, right? And, yeah, and I learned

Rasheeda Gray

for your being willing to have the conversation. Conversation. It's easy to not. It's hard to Yeah, yeah,

Kate Bendewald

yeah. That's that's the truth. Well, as we wrap up here, I want to leave our audience with this last question. If there's a certain type of project that you want to put it out there, kind of like you did a few years ago, and the universe was like, oh, that's what you want. Boop, here you go. Um, something that you want to sort of call into your your world. Can you just give us a little peek into the future for Rashida Gray?

Rasheeda Gray

I think visible. Our vision is important, and it is. It's sort of how my very first project, I mean, I did a vision board, and it was like, I think I want to be a designer, and then here it is. So I have a vision board now. I've done it for the last like 15 years, but yeah, what am I working on? I'm excited about I'm excited that our firm is at a place where we're getting the opportunity to work on whole home projects. And so we have quite a few on the books right now, and the clients are trusting and allowing us to do fun stuff. So I'm excited about that. I am excited I just got off like a Showhouse. I don't know what you want to call it, like carousel. So I just up house, beautiful, whole home last fall, and very proud of the work we were able to do with that. It was a historic home in Chicago, and it was gorgeous, and we got to work with a lot of great brands. I am going to be renovating my own kitchen in a big way here. So stay tuned for that. I, I, I found that because our my husband, I was going to say our husband, because my husband is on board his company, we're doing much more in terms of renovation, and I specifically am loving kitchens and baths right now. So we have some kitchens coming. But outside of that, I'm doing my own and working with some brands to do it. So happy about that. And there just may be some television happening in the near future. So I would say probably around this time next year, I may have a big announcement about television. So oh

Kate Bendewald

my gosh, no big deal. Just that you have a lot going on, my friend, so much, so many things to be excited about, so many reasons to be popping out of bed each day. So I'm, I'm so grateful to have that update. I will just say, and I'm sure you've already run into this designing for yourself. We just watched our kitchen renovation. I like somebody over the wheel, because I'm not like, how many times can I change my mind on this one slab of stone, or whatever it is, we're are the we're our worst clients.

Rasheeda Gray

I did designing myself officially as a designer for one room challenge. And that was probably, I guess it was during 2020. Is when I did my first one. And such a great experience as a fairly newer designer at that time, like I just want, but basically, just having the opportunity to get that sort of visibility, because it was a social campaign, and then redo my house at the same time was great. But yeah, the decision making was very hard.

Kate Bendewald

Oh my gosh. Well, it sounds like you might be better at it than I was, but that's exciting. I cannot wait to keep keep tabs on what's happening. I want you to share your email and your social media handle so we can all follow you, and we, of course, will be sure to leave all of this in the show notes.

Rasheeda Gray

Yep. So on social media, we are gray space interiors. Gray is G, R, A, y, the word space interiors with the s on all platforms. And our website is the same gray space interiors.com and if you want to reach me, it's Rashida at gray space interiors, which is R, A, S, H, double, E, D, A,

Kate Bendewald

wonderful. Well, we will be sure to link to all of that in the show notes. And before we go, I will just say the book whose name I couldn't think of earlier is clockwork.

Rasheeda Gray

Hello. There we go. Clockwork by

Kate Bendewald

Mike mccollette, one of all of his books are fabulous. I'll be sure to link to those in the show notes as well. But I thought of it while we were talking, and I thought I'd bring it back around. Rashida, you are a delight and a pleasure, and we are so grateful that you have just chosen to say yes to visiting with us today. And. And sharing all that you have. So thank you, and I hope that we stay in touch.

Rasheeda Gray

Thank you so much for having me. I had a great time.

Kate Bendewald

Thank you. Take care. Bye for now. Hey friend. Thank you so much for letting me spend a part of this day with you. I'm so passionate about helping designers like you and I believe in a rising tide, that when one of us does well, we all do better. So if you share this attitude of abundance with me, I want you to do just one little thing. Please share this episode with someone using might love it. And if you're feeling extra generous today, go ahead and take just 30 seconds to open your podcast app and leave us a five star rating and review. It's free for you to do, and it helps me to be able to keep making more episodes and resources for you. However you choose to help, please know I appreciate you so very much. Thank you, my friend, have a wonderful rest of your day. I'll see you soon. You.