# 98 | Unlock An Enduring Business by Nurturing Client Relationships with Gideon Mendelson

Welcome to the Designers Oasis podcast. I'm your host, Kate Bendewald. If you're tired of one-size-fits-all all advice to running your interior design business, you're in the right place. Join me each week as we dive into topics to help you run a thriving interior design business. Without the hustle. We'll talk about the business of design, but also mindset and mental health because I know when you thrive, so will your life and business. It wasn't that long ago that I stepped away from my corporate interior design job to build my own design business so that I could realize my own creative dreams, have more time with the people I love, and serve my clients at the highest level, while making more money than I ever could have working for someone else. It wasn't always easy, and I made my share of mistakes along the way. Fast forward to today. And I've learned a thing or two. Since then I've built multiple six-figure interior design businesses on authentic word-of-mouth referrals with many repeat clients. And I want to share it all with you the ambitious, inspired, and I get it occasionally overwhelmed interior designer who shares this dream of transforming lives through the art of interior design, You can do this. Thank you for letting me spend part of this day with you. Let's get to it.

Kate Bendewald

You. My guest today is Gideon Mendelson of the Mendelson group in New York. Gideon is one of the smartest, honest and down to earth designers I have ever had the pleasure to meet. Do yourself a favor and really pay attention to today's episode. It is a masterclass in running a business that endures. Gideon, who grew up in New York, had the privilege of being able to look over the shoulder of his late mother, Mimi Mandelson, a sought after interior designer in her time. Fast forward to today, and Gideon credits both of his parents as well as his early career influences, college and his tennis career with helping to shape his work ethic, business acumen and creative spirit. Today, he is at the helm of his sought after design firm working with clients nationwide. We talk about their process for onboarding clients and gaining their trust, including a presentation called what, how and why they deliver to every client before signing them, we talk about the reality of being a multifaceted designer who understands business and design and the importance of surrounding yourself with the right people, as well as the real value of nurturing clients Throughout their experience, which can lead to lifelong clients and friendships for a business that endures. Buckle up, my friend. This is an episode you definitely don't want to miss. Hello, Gideon, good morning. How are you?

Gideon Mendelson

Good morning. How are you?

Kate Bendewald

I'm fantastic, welcome, and thank you so much for joining us today. I'm really, really excited to get into some conversations with you. I have so many things I want to ask you, and in doing some bit of research and background on you, I just, I'm really enamored with your backstory and and your business, and you've got a lot of insights to glean. So we're, I feel very fortunate to be able to sit and chat with you today. So thanks for your time.

Gideon Mendelson

My pleasure. Thanks for having me.

Kate Bendewald

All right, so let's start. I always like to, I like a good, juicy backstory. So you are currently, well, always have been based out of New York, bouncing around between the city and the country, and so today you are based out of Long Island. Is that correct?

Gideon Mendelson

Yeah, I live in Long Island with my family, but my office is in Manhattan. But most

Kate Bendewald

of your work, you most of your career, you've been based out of New York and 90. Jan, that's where you grew up. Yes.

Gideon Mendelson

So I grew up. I was born in the city, grew up in Westchester, and went to college in the city. So, you know, I'm a city boy at this point, living living on Long Island. Somehow,

Kate Bendewald

I do understand from my New York friends, that it's a bit of an identity shift to move from the city to the suburbs, but a lot of times that's just what makes the most sense in in life, especially when you're raising a family.

Gideon Mendelson

Yep, it's all for the kids. It's all for the things we do

Kate Bendewald

for our children. Wonderful. So you have three kids, right? Tell tell us their ages.

Gideon Mendelson

My older son is 13, and I have twins, a boy and a girl, that are 11. So we're right. We're in sort of adolescence, pre adolescence, teenagers sprouting. It's all happening. Yeah,

Kate Bendewald

yeah. I'm in the same boat. I have an 11 year old, and I feel like just since her birthday, when she turned 11, it felt like a little switch went off, and it's like, oh, here we are. We're in preteendom. Was that a little sass I detected? Yes,

Gideon Mendelson

there's a lot of sass in my house, so we're working on it.

Kate Bendewald

Yeah, we watched the Inside Out movie again last night in preparation for part two that's coming out this summer. My favorite line from there is when the guy who played by what's his lean last name is black, but he says, Sir, I'm detecting a high level

Gideon Mendelson

of sass. Yeah? Jack, black, yes,

Kate Bendewald

that's it. Thank you. That's one of my favorite lines. Well, it is. It is no joke to be raising three kids, especially at this age, well, any age, really, while also running an empire. So we're gonna, we're gonna get into, I want to hear a bit about your backstory. So I want to first start with asking you about your late mother, Mimi Mendelson, who I am sort of enamored with. Your relationship with her. I understand that as a kid. So she's an interior was an interior designer, and you were around her and her career, and you sort of saw and absorbed a lot of what you saw her working on and doing, not only from the colors and the fabrics, but also from the space planning and the circulation and the real thought behind the functionality of spaces, and you were able to sort of look over her shoulders as a young child and see the work that she did. I also understand that as a young kid, she had a little office across the street from your elementary school, is that right?

Gideon Mendelson

That is right. That is definitely right. So talk to me

Kate Bendewald

about what you remember about? Yeah, it was, it

Gideon Mendelson

was a it was a fun time. My parents, neither of them, pushed any of us to to do anything. My father was a money an asset manager. He worked in the finance world. And, you know, my mother was a designer, and, you know, I sort of absorbed some things from both of them. It's true, my mother had a small interior design firm that happened to have an office a few blocks from where my elementary school was. And this was a long time ago. Now it's over 40 years ago, scary, but at that time, this would never happen today, but the school allowed us to leave campus. I would walk into town and meet my mother for lunch, or meet a friend. Would meet me, join me for lunch in town at the local deli, or whatever it was and I would walk upstairs and say hello to my mother, and you know she would inevitably be, you know, scheming or drawing, and you know she wasn't intentionally teaching me anything. But, you know, I would watch and sort of see what she was doing and ask questions. And, you know, we always had design magazines at home, and periodically I'd go to a job site with her, if it was like in town, and we were on our way to, like, a tennis lesson or something, and I'd have to stop there with her. And, you know, there were contractors and vendors around. And, you know, I just sort of absorbed a lot of information without really realizing it. I never really thought I was going to be an interior designer. I think when I was a kid, I kind of imagined myself more as like a professional tennis player at the time, but I took a technical drawing class in high school. It was an elective class, yeah, and I loved it. I just loved standing at my drafting table with my main line and my pens and. Pencils. And, you know, those things don't exist anymore, or they don't exist in my world anymore, but I just loved, I loved it. I loved I loved the drawing. I loved the, you know, I loved all of it. I loved the space planning and the circulation and the architecture, and it's what I ended up studying in college,

Kate Bendewald

right? So, so here you are. You are inadvertently absorbing this knowledge of design, really thinking. I understand that you were recruited to go play tennis at Columbia, and I understand that you weren't that interested in school, but you were really drawn to the class of really drawn to the classical architecture of the campus, and so you go to school for architecture and film studies. Talk to me about why you chose to prefer pursue film study, and does that work, that you're just what you learned there? Does that, what you learned about film does that in any way impact your work today.

Gideon Mendelson

Yeah, for sure. You know, I got to, I got to. I went to Columbia, here in the city, and, you know, I was there playing tennis. All of my classmates were, you know, studying finance, after the after the, you know, Columbia is known for their core curriculum, but after a few years of that studying literature and contemporary civilization and music and art, they were all sort of moving towards, you know, finance and Political Science and whatever else they were doing. And I said to myself, My God, What? What? What am I going to do? Like, what do I what do I know? Yeah, and what are my strengths? And at the time, all I really knew was tennis. And I had been a very independent kid because of my tennis. I traveled all over the country by myself. I was the one sort of managing my own little tennis career. So I was very good with adults as a young person, and I was sort of a little sales kid, little salesy kid. So I and My Father, interestingly enough, it was sort of a midlife crisis moment for him, but he almost accidentally got involved in the theater, and I started to go see theater with him and meet people in the entertainment industry. And I said, you know, theater is not so much my thing, but I really love film. And at Columbia, we had to, we had to declare what they called an interdisciplinary specialization, which was a minor, you know. And, you know, the architecture department wanted us to study math or physics or something, you know, related to more related to architecture. And I really wanted to study film. So my thesis was actually about the relationship between architecture and film, and it was very history theory driven the film study. It wasn't, you know, practical in any way, but I definitely learned how to watch a film. I learned to, you know, understand, you know what, what the camera was doing, and and composition, and I think that's sort of what I take with me to my design today is, you know, I'm, I think I probably experience moving through a space a little differently than most people because of it, my my interest in composition and form and scale and proportion might be, it's just, it just had an impact. So, yeah, I mean, I'm so glad I I did all that

Kate Bendewald

I can. Yeah, I can't help but think that the the the underpinnings of design that you developed as a as a young person, clearly showed up in this understanding of film and composition, and how do you set up a scene? And so to me, that makes a ton of sense. So after, after college, you go, I understand you go work for a few years William Morris talent agency before you really decided your true calling was interior design. So you go back to school, to New York School for interior design, and then And correct me, if any, if I'm wrong on any of this, but I understand that soon after that, you are at a pool party, and it was Stephen Gamble's home, who, at the time, was an up and coming designer, who had a mid century home. And you, having grown up with, I understand your your mother, had a very sort of classic design style, where you leaned a bit more contemporary, and you. You come to this mid century home and start to really realize, you know, there's so much more out there. And you go to him and ask him for a job, and you say to him, you don't need to pay me a lot, but I need to come to all of those meetings. Is that? Is that true?

Gideon Mendelson

You've got it basically, right? So I was, I was dating someone at the time, and some friends of his invited us out to the Hamptons for a New Year's Eve party. So we get there, and I'm like, looking around this house, and I was like, Wow. I was, I was really just taken back by the house. It was cat, it was casual, but sophisticated and had some really interesting, you know, furniture from like, the 50s and 60s that wasn't really part of my experience. And I entered, you know, I was there staying with this this couple and this person I was dating at the time. And I said, Wow, your house is so beautiful. And they said, Oh, it turns out, my our designer is here. Oh, yeah, Steven was a guest just like me, yeah, at this party, and I introduced myself, and we kind of hit it off. And like, like you said, I sort of didn't have any real experience to offer him. You know, I was a very well organized young man with some drafting, some poor drafting skills and an open mind and a work ethic. And I, you know, he was very gracious in allowing me to someone of no experience, a common sort of, basically intern, and, you know, follow him around. And, you know, for 10 months or so, I I saw the I saw a different, you know, business, something that, you know, was a little bit different than my mother's. And it was my mother had retired. So it was, you know, 15 years after my mother had already retired, maybe a little less. So the industry was different. The process was a little bit different. And every designer does things a little bit differently. So it was, it was, it was a great experience for me to just sort of see a slightly different angle.

Kate Bendewald

Why was it important to you to be in the meetings? Because,

Gideon Mendelson

well, I mean, I think, you know, and maybe this, this came from my my dad, more, you know. And it's something that I think all young designers really need to understand, is that, you know, being a successful interior designer is not only having the ability to do the creative component, right? It's not just about drawing, you know, putting together some construction documents or some design intent drawings, whatever it is you do, it's not a it's not only about putting together a beautiful scheme of textiles and fabrics or drawing elevations and detailing and specifying furniture, or designing furniture or selecting things that, to me, that's sort of, that's a given like, if you can't do that stuff, You're not getting into this business anyway, right? But, but What? What? What's, what's really, what, what makes a what really makes a successful designer? Number one is, you know, you have to be able to bring business in right at the end of the day sales, right? So I want, I wanted to be part of that sales process. Or I wanted to be able to see the sales process. I wanted to see how Stephen was talking to clients and the language and, you know, the pushing and the, you know, all that, all the sort of idiosyncratic communication that goes on, or the the the interesting communication that goes on, yeah, you know, I wanted to, you know, we have ideas as designers, but if you don't have vendors who can, kind of, who you can communicate those ideas to, and who can execute those ideas, who cares, right? So I wanted to, I wanted to be able to sort of meet with these vendors, with him. I wanted to understand that dialog, that back and forth, that collaboration, and, you know, just being able to run a job, I call it right. It's, yes, we're designers, but, you know, here I am in my office. We're a creative shop, but there's nobody in here doing anything creative right now, I promise you, it's, it's like project management, it's, it's client service. You know, that's really what it is. So I really wanted to see those, those things. I wanted the meetings, I wanted the process. I wanted the. The the to see the service that was being delivered.

Kate Bendewald

Yeah, I think it's really wise. And I, and I always get a little bit of a pain in my side when I hear a young designer right out of school say, I want to go work straight for myself. And, you know, depending on life experiences, that might be the right move for someone, but I don't think that I would be where I am today if I hadn't had the ability to have mentors and be able to see experienced designers and how they do those idiosyncratic things that you don't learn in school, that only experience can teach you. And I totally agree. Yeah, I really encourage designers to get as much experience from somebody who has more experience as you can before you really go out on your own, because you'll you'll go further faster, I think, and otherwise, you'll make a lot of mistakes on your dime that you could potentially avoid if you I certainly

Gideon Mendelson

wish I had spent more time working for other designers. I mean, I was lucky that I had my mother who who, you know, spent some time with me, but again, she was sort of a little more old school, and things changed very quickly. I definitely made a lot of mistakes. I definitely had to learn in the field. Another really important thing is to develop a community of people that you can share ideas with. I started a group. We call ourselves design share. This was pre pandemic, but it's, you know, 11 or 12 designers that you know we used to meet very regularly, but it's a group of successful designers who I respect and that I can call upon if I have a question or if I need a reference, or if it could be anything just we share best practices. We talk about everything from legal things to agreements to service to marketing to you know, hey, who I need a new plaster guy. Can anyone recommend someone in Greenwich, Connecticut, you know, that kind of thing? Yeah, so just having those relationships has been very helpful.

Kate Bendewald

I love hearing that from someone as seasoned and successful as you are, that you're you never outgrow this need for community or mentorship or fellowship among other designers, and I also, I think this is changing too, but I feel like for a while there, at least when I my career first started, it there did feel like a lot of competition between designers, especially in the same city or region where I think that's changing, and we do see each other more as collaborators. So it feels very, almost validating to hear that come, come from you.

Gideon Mendelson

I think, I think that's, you know, yes, it's true. We're competing for for projects. I don't know. I never really had a negative attitude about that kind of stuff. I mean, the truth is, there, especially here in New York. I don't know the Denver market, but there's so much work for all of us, right? And, you know, I've been very lucky that I'm still here doing this, and my attitude is like, as long as I'm still growing and learning every year and my team, everyone on my team, is sort of getting better every year, and we're learning and growing, I want to keep doing it. And I think that's having this network, you know, is great for that. You know, every project comes up with a new set of, you know, programmatic requirements. And so I'm always, we're always learning something new, or something new always comes up, and I I'm not afraid to say, hey, I don't know. I've never done that before, but let me get back to you. I'll, I'll, I'll figure that out, and we'll solve that issue, or we'll, we'll come up with a good solution, such

Kate Bendewald

a refreshing approach to to thinking about your place in this world as a designer, that you know that it truly is an abundance mindset. There's enough for everybody. And you know that that you guys can all work. Everybody can really help lift each other up. I want to go back to your mom for a second and how your your business got started. So you're working with Steven. Your mom is retired, but she gets a phone call from an old client who essentially coaxes her out of out of retirement for a minute. What happens then? Yeah,

Gideon Mendelson

so she called me. I was literally in Steven's office. She called me and she said, You know this particular person who, who I'm actually still working with today. We're doing a we're doing a project for her in Boca, Raton, Florida, right now, she called me at work and she said, You won't believe it. This person just called and they're building a house. What am I going to do? Know? And I was like, I don't know. I mean, that sounds terrible for you, you know, give it some thought, I'm at work. I'll talk to you later. Yeah. And I hung up the phone, and I just sat there, and I was like, my gosh, this is a great opportunity, if she's going to be doing this work, maybe she would let me, you know, sort of do it with her. We'd start a company together, and this would sort of what, while it might have been a little premature for me to sort of go out on my own, I thought it was hard to turn down this opportunity, so I basically called her back and I said, Hey, let's, let's meet and talk about this. Maybe we should start a company together. I'll do the work that you don't want to do. You can do the kind of fun, creative stuff, and I'll run the business, and with her help, and that's sort of how it got started. And it was very lucky, because it was a big project with a considerable budget, and it gave us the capital to, you know, open up a little, tiny, little office and hire someone and start marketing. Wow, yeah.

Kate Bendewald

So clearly your if your mom is being coaxed out of retirement by past clients, and now I'm understanding that those clients, I don't that was in 2003 right?

Gideon Mendelson

That was Yes, 2003

Kate Bendewald

Yeah. So here we are, 20 years later. You're still working with the same client. So I think we have to talk about client relationships, because clearly you and your family know something about that. What did Mimi, right? Mimi, I love that name. Teach you about the importance of relationships in in business. It's

Gideon Mendelson

a good question, um, and I'm sure that

Kate Bendewald

this came from a lot of aspects of your life, not just sure, but yeah.

Gideon Mendelson

I mean it's for sure. I mean, it came from my entire experience, right? I think, you know, I think they taught me to be confident in myself. I think they taught me to be honest and communicative. And, you know, I think my mother's gift was, you know, she she really made people feel like you had to do what she said, which was an amazing thing, like you could be having a conversation and arguing with her, and know you're right in every way, and then somehow she would turn it around and you leave the conversation say, What The heck just happened here, I just didn't get what I wanted, and I really should have.

Kate Bendewald

She had a way with words. It sounds like she

Gideon Mendelson

really did. She was a linguist, for sure, and she was a great salesperson. And I think you know when you believe in your product or your service and you can sell it and make someone feel good about it. That's a pretty good combination. Yeah, yeah, you know. And, you know, I've been very lucky. I 20 and a half years later, you know, we got a lot of repeat clients. We're doing a third project right now with one client and a third project with two different couples, actually. And it's, it's, it's the best, it's the best thing when you when you you know, it's certainly a challenge. As I get older, I sort of joke to my team all the time. It's like you'd think I would know, I'd have a better sense, you know someone new walks in the door, whether it's going to work out or not. You really, I don't. I'm not learning anything about that, but I'm definitely learning how to handle things better, and, you know, to to get trust, to get people to trust us and feel good about the service that we provide and the process that we're going to, the experience that they're going to have going, you know, working with us, and it's, it's, it's all pretty good. We have a very nice relationship with our clients.

Kate Bendewald

Yeah, I want to, I want to talk about trust a little bit more. I have, you know, said for a long time that if you have, if you don't have trust with the client. You've got nothing. It's so important that early on, you work with clients who I think are inherently trusting, although that might not be something that happens right off the bat, right? Design, especially residential design, is so personal, people are investing a lot of money in and time and you, they're inviting you to come to their home. They're inviting you into their most personal space, and they're asking you to essentially design and create and develop this backdrop to their lives. It's an incredibly personal experience. Hey there, designer. Have you checked out the designers Oasis shop lately? If not, you are really missing out. Not only did the shop get a glow up, making it super easy to find exactly what you're looking for, but we've also added some amazing new digital products with courses coming soon. Hold on to your hat, friend, you have to check out the brand spanking new project budget calculator. With this tool, so much of the hard work is already done for you. All you have to do is plug in the project details and it will tally up the project budget for you. Go through the relevant categories such as furnishings, lighting, Kitchen and Bath. It even includes popular specialty designs, such as built ins, wallpaper install and fireplace design. Pick which products you'll need and the quantity, and then choose the good, better or best pricing options. The pricing is already there for you by default, but with one simple click, you can always adjust if necessary. It's flexible, it's fast, it's easy, and it is the last budget tool you'll ever use in your interior design business. Oh, what's that? Can you create different budgets for different rooms? Oh, heck, yeah, girl. I even designed it to add it all up onto one master sheet so you can easily present that to your clients. If you'd like, head over to the shop to check out all our new products and get 10% off your first order when you use the code shop 10. Today, that's designers oasis.com, forward slash shop and use the code shop 10 for 10% off your first purchase.

Kate Bendewald

So when you think about it, working with a new client, how do you get to know your clients, to start to develop that that trust early on, I have a quote from you saying, it's my job to listen, put the pieces of the puzzle together and tell my clients stories through my design. So as you're starting those early relationships and starting to build trust, how do you get to know your clients, as you're getting started, what kind of conversations are you having?

Gideon Mendelson

Yeah. I mean, yeah, it happens pretty organically. I think, unlike many designers, our sales process is a little bit I don't jump out of the gate with our letter of agreement and getting a signature. Yeah, I do a little bit more work upfront in the hopes of gaining trust and making sure that this is the right relationship for everybody. Yeah, tell me more about that. Yeah. So, you know, I normally start with with, with the conversation over the phone, yeah, you know, someone calls and you know they have, you know, we have an inquiry somehow through the internet or over Instagram or a referral, and we usually have about a 10 to 15 minute first conversation, just to so I can get a sense of, is this in the ballpark of, sort of what we do. And obviously, you know, the financial aspect is critical, right? I'm running a business here, so if it doesn't make sense for us financially, it's not going to work. You know, I have some I have a little questionnaire that I have that I fill out. I don't really, it's not that I'm asking questions necessarily, but I'm, I have qualifiers that I'm considering. So there's the budget, there's sort of, how interesting of a project is this going to be? Is this a relationship that I think is going to go well in terms of communication and the process, and, you know, lastly is, do I think that there's potential to get other work out of this relationship? Yeah, that's sort of the first conversation, and that sounds very not personal, but obviously I'm, you know, I'm getting, I'm getting a little personal with that. There's nuances to it, but those are the questions I need answered right away to see if I'm getting to the next step. Right,

Kate Bendewald

right? I just want to pause you real quick, because I love how straight to the point this is, and I'm sure it's done in a very tasteful way, but it's like, we have to check some of these initial boxes before we can even move into these next, you know, more meaningful conversations. And for you, it's, you know, things like, is the budget going to work, right? Does it make sense? I'm running a business, probably timeline. But also, you said, is it going to be an interesting project? I think that's one of the things that it is sometimes, especially when you're just getting started, you need to take a project because you need the experience, you need to pay the bills, you you need to build your portfolio. And as we grow and evolve as as business owners and designers, I think it's really important to. Are asking ourselves, is this going to be something that's going to light me up and be interesting as well, and that that's an important sort of test for do I want to take this one? I'm

Gideon Mendelson

very lucky. I'm very lucky. I mean, at this stage of my career, and also because of social media, you know, 20 years ago, business came in through mostly referrals. Yeah, right. So it was a little less, you know, finding the right thing. Now it's with Instagram. It's just you get calls and inquiries pretty regularly, and it could be someone saying, hey, I want to, I'm working on my dining room, and I've got, you know, $25,000 and I'm like, okay, that's not for my company. Let and I'm I love referring work to to friends or young designers. I have a roster of people like, yeah. But to back up a little bit, I mean, those are the sort of qualifiers, the questions that I need answers to. But I'm doing it in a way that is also, you know, starting that communication, starting developing that sense of trust. I'm asking them, hey, tell me a little bit about what you have in mind. You know, what is this project? You know, I'm doing mostly the listening then, and I'm sort of, you know, throwing in those questions. I want to understand if someone's worked with a designer before. I want to understand what that experience was like, what were the pros and cons? So again, I can understand what, what they're looking for, you know, from a service perspective, from a design perspective, from a relationship perspective, and you know, from there, I might go to a site, if it's a if it's if it's a house that I need to see, if it's an apartment that's there's something existing. I mean, if we're demo for demolishing a place, I don't need to go see it necessarily, right off the bat. And then that's also an opportunity to for someone to kind of meet me in a more casual way, not in an office setting and again, kind of talk a little more, and maybe that walkthrough is a little bit more program focused, and me getting to asking questions about her, them and their family and what their needs Are, it gets more personal, yeah, and if they pass that test, I invite them to my office to meet my team. I give a presentation that we call the what, how, why presentation? What do we do? How do we do it, and why do we do it? And after that is when I'm sort of really have a good sense of, is this the right, you know, couple for me, is this the right family for me? Even after that, I usually put together a very robust budget before signing an agreement. And I think all of those elements and a lot of designers would be like, I'd never put all that work in. I spend hours and hours putting together a very, very, you know, sometimes these budgets are 20 pages long. Every line item, you know, again, they it adjusts because we haven't finalized our furniture plan or anything, but I do a quick sketch all of those things. It's the the personalization, it's the time, it's the communication. It's meeting my team, yeah, learning that one of my team, one of my colleagues here, has been with me for 17 years. Two have been with me for 11 or 12 years. Yeah, that that there's something good going on here, right? And then understand, showing them our documentation, showing them our budgets. Everyone, you know, everyone can see that we are professional and communicative and we're sort of touching all the important points. I mean, I think one thing that I've learned over the years is, like I said earlier, it's really important. Obviously we have to be good designers. I kind of joke like, we've got to be good enough at design, right? They're already coming with social media and the internet and magazines and show houses and everything else. They already see what we can do. They're not necessarily coming and be like, tell me a little bit about your style. Or like, yeah, you know, because they already have all that. They're they're in the door because they like the work, right? So what am I really selling them on? Yeah, talk a little bit about my work, right? But I'm really selling them on documentation and communication at the end, at the end of the day, and pro and and service. Yeah, right, right. Um, so I think that's sort of not necessarily what designers are thinking about when they go into the business, but this really what we do, yeah, yeah, you know, right? 10, maybe 10% of our time is spent being creative.

Kate Bendewald

Yeah, exactly it's, it's so true. And I think that's, you know. Distinguishes the designers who, quote, unquote, make it, you know, versus the ones who struggle, is this ability to be multifaceted and have this ability to not just design, to build relationships, and have be a good communicator, be able to, you know, hold these, hold space for these clients during their time with you. And I mean, I have a service background, so that's the part of the business that I really love and excites me. And I think, too, designers who succeed are the ones who get that. You know, good service begets more clients and repeat clients and and that's truly your business can become a referral and repeat client machine if you can nurture and hold space for those clients in a way that they feel like you're the they're your only clients, right? Of course, they're not, but if you can make them feel that way during their time with you, I think it goes a long, long way you you clearly have have that dialed in. It sounds like

Gideon Mendelson

Thank you. I hope so. I also think it's really important to recognize that most designers, you know, get into the business because because of the creative right? So we sort of have to be very self reflective, in a way, and and understand, like, okay, yeah, we are creatives, but we're running businesses here. So what are all those components? What? What is it? What does it mean to run a business? There's sales, there's marketing, there's, there's, there's a legal component, right? There's, there's, there's HR, there's management, right? We, we, how are we supposed to be good at all of this stuff? You know, we need to surround ourselves with a great team, right? So, I think another thing that I've been very fortunate with is, you know, hiring a team that can kind of balance out my weaknesses or enhance my strengths, right? And I think that's it can be very scary for a young creative person to say, I want to, I can't run a business because I don't. I can't manage. I can't I don't know anything about marketing. I can't do sales or HR, or any of that stuff. Okay, well, then be smart. Hire people that can, you know, and that's a luxury, obviously, but hiring the right team and surrounding yourself with, you know, with great talent is is enormous, well,

Kate Bendewald

and there's certainly ways that you can, you know, step that it doesn't you don't have to, your first hire doesn't have to be full time on salary with full benefits. You can certainly start, start small, start with, you know, a contractor, contracted relationship, and grow and build from there and and they and doing it that way can actually help you financially, get the capital that you need to be able to move them up to full time and into a bigger capacity. So there's but the point that I'm hearing, and I want to reiterate, is that, yes, all of those are aspects of doing and running a successful business. You don't have to be great at all of that. You need to have a basic understanding of what's needed. But if you can't, and nobody has all of those skill sets, you know, being able to hire someone that can support you in those roles will will be the thing that takes you to the next level. One of the thing that young designers struggle with is learning to articulate the value that they bring. As a designer. We know today that anyone can hop on to first dibs or to One Kings Lane, but you're quoted as saying this, and I love it, spending time on websites and having access to vendors doesn't mean you end up with dynamic, cohesive or interesting space. And I think this really gets to the point of, just because you have access to these does it make you a designer? And so how can you elaborate on this? And how can designers learn to take this idea and really own it as a designer, and help them learn how to gracefully and respectfully convey this idea to a client. I

Gideon Mendelson

could talk about this for an hour. This is so this is so frustrating for me, actually, okay? So a couple of things. Number one, to you know, you start by talking about designers. We're not sales people, right? I mean, I am, but most are not. Most designers are creatives artists. Have you ever like, met a painter who is good at selling their work? They're terrible. They're awkward and weird and and, you know, they just want, like, the gallery, to deal with it, you know what? I mean? They want to do their work, right? Unfortunately, our business doesn't work that way. We can't sort of, uh. You know, hunkered down in our studios and paint beautiful watercolor renderings and then scheme and then just show up at install, never meet the client. So, you know, I've been very lucky because of my experience with my tennis and because of my experience with my father, who was a money manager and dealing with clients, because of my mother. You know, I have this inherent comfort selling myself, meeting strangers, talking about the core competencies of my business and the different verticals and etc. Yeah, I it's just it comes more naturally to me because I grew up. I grew up with it. So get comfortable. Okay, my father became, sort of, he sort of revolutionized cold calling in the sort of private client or brokerage firm brokerage industry. And he was always, you know, selling that to us, like, just get on the phone. You know what I mean, fail. You know, when I was a when I was going to college, and, you know, I was trying to figure out if I was going to where I was going to play tennis, you'd be like, Okay, let's make a list of of 50 schools, and let's start with number 50, and then number 49 don't call number one first. But if you call 59 and you know, through 55 to start, or or 50, I'm sorry, 50 through 45 to start, you'll make some mistakes. Those aren't your first choices, okay, but by the time you get to number 20, you're going to be used to making these calls to the coaches. You're going to be comfortable talking about, you know, whatever it is, yeah, so get on the phone practice. Get comfortable making mistakes. You know, I tell this to my children all the time. You've got to be comfortable with failure. You got to be comfortable being uncomfortable, right? The more uncomfortable you are, the more comfortable you get with being uncomfortable. So it's less of a big deal? Yeah, I have someone here in my office who started with me 17 years ago, and when I hired her, she said, I don't want to be client facing at all. I want to be in front of a I can't talk to a vendor. I can't I only want to be in front of a computer drafting and I'll help you with your IT stuff, because I'm into I'm a computer geek. I said, Okay, today, 17 years later, she's my Director of Client Services. She is the most confident, capable person I've ever met. Yeah, and you know, this is also something that I feel strongly about, like in our industry, you were talking about, you know, creatives, we were talking about that. And in our industry, you have, you know, principal designers, senior designers, junior designers. Maybe there's like a project managers, maybe a coordinator, or, like a procurement person. Maybe there's some administrative people. Nowhere is there a client service director? Only in the advertising world or in marketing world, I feel so strongly about this position we've created, and it separates us, I think, from from our competitors, a lot. I feel really strongly about that. Anyway, I digress a little bit, but I think, anyway, I think I answered your question,

Kate Bendewald

can you elaborate a little bit more on what her day to day role looks like as the Director of Client Services? Did I say that? Yes.

Gideon Mendelson

I mean, it starts with this, and she's involved right from the beginning in the sales process. I am usually making the first contact, but the second a client comes in for that, what, how I presentation. She and I are kind of giving that presentation together. It's like we're like an old couple going back and forth, talking about, you know, the service. You know, I'm talking a little more about the design. She's talking a little bit more about the service. We talk a little bit about the team. She knows the ins and outs of what's happening here all day, every day. She manages the she's sort of the liaison between the creative, the creative team, and the client, right? She's the point person. She's the one sending out, um, she might not be creating, she's certainly not entering specs and creating proposals, but she's the one delivering that information, right? She's the one she might not be involved as a project manager with a site or, you know, a calendar or a timeline of a project or what's going on from a construction standpoint, but she's communicating that information. So she's a person that a client can come to, can go to, who basically knows the top line of everything that's going on. Yeah, and if she doesn't know, you know, she talks to a project manager, she talks to a designer, she talks to a coordinator, she talks to. Me, it's a the client knows that there's a person here who is solely responsible for them and their experience. And I think that's love. It really comforting to know that if there's a budget question, if there's a timeline question, if there's a documentation question, they can go to her and and feel really good about what what she's going to say, or they're going to get their answer quickly. Yeah,

Kate Bendewald

I am. I'm obsessed with this idea of having a singular role for that, and I think it's, you know, when it comes back to the conversation of building trust with clients. I can see how, and especially when you're working on the level of projects that you guys are working on with the kinds of budgets and investments that you're managing, you need a role like that. And in that level of client expects that in a way, but I don't think they expected out of interior, an interior design firm, necessarily, but once they realize, you know, this is this clearly one of the things that sets you guys apart. To me, it's an incredible as if I was a potential client, an incredible selling point to know that you've got that person there, that that is the liaison and a really important role.

Gideon Mendelson

Yeah. I mean, you started this part of the conversation asking about, you know, sort of young designers selling themselves and having this role and this differentiation makes me feel really good about selling, you know, I'm proud to sell this, this component of our business, for sure,

Kate Bendewald

I can, I can see why, and I and I could see a way I'm just thinking about, you know, a young designer who is listening to this and thinking that is very aspirational and and yet, I can see that there could be ways to do this within your own small, but mighty firm where maybe it's not a dedicated person, but you know that this particular person is the one who's your first point of contact for any questions and, and that you know can be your your starting place, for sure,

Gideon Mendelson

it started. And I think every designer can do this, whether it's them by themselves, them with a couple of assistants. Is we sat down as a team, and this was probably eight years ago now, maybe 10. And we, we literally wrote down. I had everyone have a little pad of their desk. I wanted them to write down exactly what they did for like two weeks straight. And we, we sort of compiled this information and we created almost like a timeline of and then we put ourselves in the in the position of the client. Like, what is the client's experience from the first point of contact till when we hand them their keys and the installation is over? You know what I mean? Like, what is everything that happens? And how can we find elements or moments in that experience to make it a better one, you know, are we making enough contact at this point? Is this a is there an opportunity to, kind of, you know, surprise them with something nice? You know what I mean? Is there an opportunity for, you know, you know, towards the end of the of the of the project, there's a little design fatigue going on. Is this an opportunity for us to talk about it? You know? Is, is, you know, we're doing well in our budget. We try and get ahead of this kind of thing, you know. Can we email them and say, hey, you know, it's that time of the month? We just want you to know, you know we this is where we're at. We're doing great. We're 3% under budget. Thank you for being such great partners. Whatever, whatever it is, yeah, are there opportunities to make that experience better? It might be as simple as someone walks in the door, what is the client? What does it look like in here? What does it smell like in here? What are you offering your clients every time they walk in the door, you know, what's every part of the experience? The clients coming to a site, a job site, you know, and you and you're working with a contractor or a builder that you know. How can you help that builder to make a better experience? Is it protected really well? Is it always clean? Is it what is the client experiencing. You know, what does our document look like? How is it is everybody understanding our budget? Is it too complicated for them? Should we eliminate some of these columns or cells and yeah, how can we make that experience better? How can we analyze the minutia, literally, to sort of make this a better experience for them, yeah,

Kate Bendewald

one of the things I always say is do the ordinary extraordinarily well. And you will, you will have, it's one of the cornerstones of having repeat and referral clients. And you have this down to an art and a science. And I feel. I would feel honored to be able to be a client of yours, because I would feel like I was in really, really good hands. And clearly, you know, here you are working with clients 20 years in the running, you've there's something to that. So well, we're almost out of time, so I want to be respectful of your time, but I would like to wrap up with sort of a forward looking question. I started out asking you about your kids, and I was, you know, clearly very smitten with learning about the relationship with you and your mom. I have two kids, and I will, I would be lying if I said I didn't have an agenda and hoped that one of them did something in design or creative, but they're their own people. So knowing this bond that you had with you and your mom over design, is there a part of you that hopes that your kids will carry on this Mendelssohn legacy?

Gideon Mendelson

I mean, to be honest, I don't, I don't really give that much thought. You know, I do get a kick when the kids come into the office. I think it is fun for me to to see them looking at stuff and trying to remember what that experience was like on my own. We have a tremendous amount of material here, samples and stone and wood and fabric and whatever else we have here. It's fun to see what they pull out and what they're doing. My older son is really into sneakers, and so he doesn't know this yet, but I have this project that I want to while he's playing tennis and do whatever else he's doing over the summer, there's gonna be a lot of downtime, so I'm going to create a template for, like, a drawing of a side view, a back view, and a top view of a sneaker. And I'm going to bring home, don't tell my leather vendors, but I'm going to bring home samples of leathers and different fabrics for him to kind of cut and paste onto these template drawings. And I'm going to prompt him with, like, some sort of, you know, inspiration like this week is, you know, Wimbledon. So that's your inspiration. And you know, here, here are your bins of fabrics and leathers. And come up with a design, and I want you to present to me your idea and why you did what you did. So I'm trying to, you know, teach him some presentation skills, some verbal skills and some design, you know, I don't care if he's designing a house or a pair of sneakers. You know, I don't know if this is not for everybody. I'll tell you that, right, this business is not for everybody. It's, it's very Yeah, it's not for everybody. You know, I take my work home with me every day. Yeah, I'm working on weekends less and less, but once in a while I've got to go to a job site in the Hamptons, because that's where I am on the weekends and, you know, but at the end of the day, I think what I'm what and I and I hope my clients, what they see here in my company and my teammates and myself, and what I hope to impart on my children is we're good people. We feel strongly about what we're doing. I talk about the power of what design can do. I believe really strongly in design, but we're a very nice group of people, good characters, smart and I hope to, I hope my kids are good characters, and I hope that they, you know, develop as a work ethic, you know. And I think that's, that's, that's sort of what I'm those are my two non negotiables for my kids, that they're good people and that they have a work ethic, whatever they choose to do, great if they, if they, you know, it would be work. For me, is not work. You know, there are some challenging moments, but I get to do something I love. I'm surrounded by people I really, really like. We're having a great time here. We're laughing all the time. And the work is, the work is easy. The hardest part is, you know, a challenging client once in a while, a vendor who disappoints you, or, you know, timelines that don't get met because of, you know, issues in the supply chain system, whatever it is, but the work itself, we're we're all very lucky to do what we do. Yeah,

Kate Bendewald

yeah. Well, I think your kids are incredibly lucky to have you and your husband guiding them through this wildlife. I think it's a really wild time to be a youth. And, you know, I think that there's almost like, I hate to say it, but old school values that are really important to us and our family. I love seeing that you're hoping bringing. That to your own kids in their lives. And I'm so excited to see the sneaker project. I think it's an incredibly smart and creative and curious project, and I would love to see what comes out of that. I think they're really lucky to have you. And that sounds just like a fun summer project. I I'm so grateful. I feel like this has been a masterclass in learning from a real, you know, just genius in this area. And so I feel very fortunate to have had an hour to sit with you today. Thank you for your time.

Gideon Mendelson

You're too kind. Thank you. Let's do it again.

Kate Bendewald

Wonderful. Have a wonderful summer with your kiddos, and I hope to stay in touch. Bye. For now, definitely.

Gideon Mendelson

Bye. Thank you.

Kate Bendewald

Hey friend. Thank you so much for letting me spend a part of this day with you. I'm so passionate about helping designers like you, and I believe in a rising tide that when one of us does well, we all do better. So if you share this attitude of abundance with me, I want you to do just one little thing, please share this episode with someone using might love it. And if you're feeling extra generous today, go ahead and take just 30 seconds to open your podcast app and leave us a five star rating and review. It's free for you to do, and it helps me to be able to keep making more episodes and resources for you. However you choose to help, please know I appreciate you so very much. Thank you, my friend. Have a wonderful rest of your day. I'll see you soon. Bye, today's gonna be.